Traded Mathieu Joseph traded to Blues

[SanderSen]

Cleaning out the stalls after the last occupants made a gross mess is never easy. Some hard decisions had to be made and they are being made.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Good luck Joseph, glad to see the team using cap space to better round out the team. We have replaced everyone off the roster already that I didn’t care for.

 

[SENStastic]

Ya Dorion was a moron, but this baffling move is not on him at all. It's squarely on the new GM, stop using Dorion as a scapegoat for everything Staios does, the buck stops with him now and he needs to be held to account for his own decisions when warranted. I'm not entertaining anyone saying, but dOrIOn ReMEmBeR?? HE bAD!! aLL hiS fAulT! StAIoS hAD nO ChoICE!!

Let's not turn into the equivalence of the Yzerplan cult followers.

 

[KevinRedkey]

2022-22: 12pts in 11 games
2022-23: 18pts in 56 games
2023-24: 14pts in his first 16 games, followed by 21pts in the follwing 56 games.
Career high in Tampa: 26pts in 70 games

I know it's not all about points, but the guy has only looked great for less than 10% of his career. Whenever he cools down, he is worth nowhere near 2.950. For that reason alone - I'm glad we got rid of that contract.

We'll see about Amadio I guess...

 

[DylanSensFan]

Ya Dorion was a moron, but this baffling move is not on him at all. It's squarely on the new GM, stop using Dorion as a scapegoat for everything Staios does, the buck stops with him now and he needs to be held to account for his own decisions when warranted. I'm not entertaining anyone saying, but dOrIOn ReMEmBeR?? HE bAD!! aLL hiS fAulT! StAIoS hAD nO ChoICE!!

Let's not turn into the equivalence of the Yzerplan cult followers.

The move isn't baffling. We needed cap space for Pinto. It's just that simple.

 

[SENStastic]

The move isn't baffling. We needed cap space for Pinto. It's just that simple.

No we didn't, he would've fit even without the trade, wouldn't be over the cap. Wasn't in dire and desperate need to clear room urgently, he wasn't under the gun like Dorion was last September, which makes it even worse. He had all summer to figure something out if he wanted more headway, and should've bought out Hamonic like we thought would happen, he shouldn't be on the team at this point.

 

[DylanSensFan]

No we didn't, he would've fit even without the trade, wouldn't be over the cap. Wasn't in dire and desperate need to clear room urgently, he wasn't under the gun like Dorion was last September, which makes it even worse. He had all summer to figure something out if he wanted more headway, and should've bought out Hamonic like we thought would happen, he shouldn't be on the team at this point.

So then how to we sign JBD and fill other holes? Why would we buy out Harmonic? Buyouts actually add to our cap, not make it better. We use up cap with a buyout and yet don't have a player to fill that used cap void. We just get to deal with defunct contract for longer on our cap. This is what happened with the other buyouts. We paid for Ryan's for a long time. I believe we're still paying for Colin White's buyout at like $850k against the cap for the next few years.

 

[SENStastic]

So then how to we sign JBD and fill other holes? Why would we buy out Harmonic? Buyouts actually add to our cap, not make it better. We use up cap with a buyout and yet don't have a player to fill that used cap void. We just get to deal with defunct contract for longer on our cap. This is what happened with the other buyouts. We paid for Ryan's for a long time. I believe we're still paying for Colin White's buyout at like $850k against the cap for the next few years.

JBD is already under contract, what are you talking about? Pinto's cap was still cap compliant. I dont know what the plan is with Hamonic, but if he wanted more cap space buying his last year isnt going to cost much or be on the books for long, and would've given a little more room if thats what he really wanted. Anyhow, thats just one option, he had plenty of time to figure out something else out if not, he wasn't over the cap regardless.

 

[edguy]

Ya Dorion was a moron, but this baffling move is not on him at all. It's squarely on the new GM, stop using Dorion as a scapegoat for everything Staios does, the buck stops with him now and he needs to be held to account for his own decisions when warranted. I'm not entertaining anyone saying, but dOrIOn ReMEmBeR?? HE bAD!! aLL hiS fAulT! StAIoS hAD nO ChoICE!!

Let's not turn into the equivalence of the Yzerplan cult followers.

The mediocrity some fans are okay with is astonishing to me.

Mathieu Joseph is one of the most mediocre players in the league. Doesn't really do anything great, just does everything well enough so as to not look too out of place.

We needed change in this lineup to get to that next step and Joseph didnt fit the new makeup of our bottom six. So he needed to go, regardless of salary, cost, whatever. If a player doesnt fit on your team, get him out of there to give yourself the best chance to win.

Soft bottom 6 wingers arent very valuable in the first place, let alone one who makes just under 3Mil the next 2 years. So yes we were always going to have to pay to get rid of him. Because why keep a player on your team when he doesn't fit the lineup? It doesn't help the team and it doesn't help the player.

So yes, you can blame Staios for changing the makeup of the team. But you should really be asking yourself why are you so against change in the way this team is built? We haven't been good enough for a long time. These changes are needed.

 

[SENStastic]

The mediocrity some fans are okay with is astonishing to me.

Mathieu Joseph is one of the most mediocre players in the league. Doesn't really do anything great, just does everything well enough so as to not look too out of place.

We needed change in this lineup to get to that next step and Joseph didnt fit the new makeup of our bottom six. So he needed to go, regardless of salary, cost, whatever. If a player doesnt fit on your team, get him out of there to give yourself the best chance to win.

Soft bottom 6 wingers arent very valuable in the first place, let alone one who makes just under 3Mil the next 2 years. So yes we were always going to have to pay to get rid of him. Because why keep a player on your team when he doesn't fit the lineup? It doesn't help the team and it doesn't help the player.

So yes, you can blame Staios for changing the makeup of the team. But you should really be asking yourself why are you so against change in the way this team is built? We haven't been good enough for a long time. These changes are needed.

LOL its ironic you bring up mediocrity to excuse this trade, while completely missing the point of my post. I have no problem with shipping him out or changing up the entire roster save a few core people, I'm not in love with the player. That was not my point.

But sure, I'm the one that's tolerating and okay with mediocrity over here, not the people gaslighting his every move and throwing up their hands in the air proclaiming its not Staios fault, Dorion made him do it, lets scapegoat him instead. What a joke.

 

[edguy]

LOL its ironic you bring up mediocrity to excuse this trade, while completely missing the point of my post. I have no problem with shipping him out or changing up the entire roster save a few core people, I'm not in love with the player. That was not my point.

But sure, I'm the one that's tolerating and okay with mediocrity over here, no the people gaslighting his every move and throwing up their hands in the air proclaiming its not Staios fault, Dorion made him do it, lets scapegoat him instead. What a joke.

Why are you so defensive?? This a hockey forum, it's for fun.. Chill.

You're point was that this is Staios's fault not Dorions. I never said the fault was Dorions. I actually explicitly said you can blame Staios.

But this isn't a deal that you can look at and say Staios is a bad GM, or the value was bad.

Matt Joseph had no value around the league as a soft bottom six guy who is signed for 2 more years at 2.9 million. He would have passed through waivers if we put him on them.

 

[SENStastic]

Why are you so defensive?? This a hockey forum, it's for fun.. Chill.

You're point was that this is Staios's fault not Dorions. I never said the fault was Dorions. I actually explicitly said you can blame Staios.

But this isn't a deal that you can look at and say Staios is a bad GM, or the value was bad.

Matt Joseph had no value around the league as a soft bottom six guy who is signed for 2 more years at 2.9 million. He would have passed through waivers if we put him on them.

It definitely was, and waivers should've been the first move at the very least if he just wanted him gone asap for some odd reason, but I just don't see the urgency or reasoning of pulling that off this early.

And no I doubt he would slip through without someone picking him up. It's as puzzling as the Walman trade Yzerman made. Bad move on a short but growing list of mediocre moves he's made so far. I'm certainly not the one being OK with mediocrity here. Even if you don't defend his decisions by blaming it all on Dorion, some people certainly have been and I've noticed its being used as a blanket excuse to defend his every decision, sometimes its very warranted, and others not at all, like this example. This one fall squarely on his shoulders, that was my point.

 

[Boud]

Why are you so defensive?? This a hockey forum, it's for fun.. Chill.

You're point was that this is Staios's fault not Dorions. I never said the fault was Dorions. I actually explicitly said you can blame Staios.

But this isn't a deal that you can look at and say Staios is a bad GM, or the value was bad.

Matt Joseph had no value around the league as a soft bottom six guy who is signed for 2 more years at 2.9 million. He would have passed through waivers if we put him on them.

Ehh Joseph is the opposite of a "soft" bottom 6 guy.

Only Tkachuk, Kastelic, Kelly and Greig had more hits. All of them who are the opposite of soft.

That trade was idiotic. Simply put. Don't know which team you've been watching. Maybe you're talking about Kubalik?

Joseph's replacement, Amadio, is way softer if that's what you care about. He's also way slower and I'm not sure he will be able to reproduce what he did with Vegas either.

I'd take Joseph on my team no questions asked over the replacement Staois added. This roster started to make sense with the additions + Joseph. Now it doesn't make as much sense.

Hell I'd bet Joseph has a better year than Perron who can barely skate at this point.

I don't have much confidence in those moves. I think they do better purely because of Ullmark and Jensen but the Perron/Amadio/Joseph moves were questionnable at best.

 

[Loach]

Joseph is the only guy DJ actually disciplined. Sat out for the first NHL game against his brother. Family was there for the occaision. Nobody wanted him for free? Why?

 

[DueDiligence]

No we didn't, he would've fit even without the trade, wouldn't be over the cap. Wasn't in dire and desperate need to clear room urgently, he wasn't under the gun like Dorion was last September, which makes it even worse. He had all summer to figure something out if he wanted more headway, and should've bought out Hamonic like we thought would happen, he shouldn't be on the team at this point.

As a number of people have stated: There are probably other off ice reasons why they wanted to dump this guy so badly. Not sure why you can't accept that.

 

[Xspyrit]

As I said in another thread :

I'd take Joseph over Perron without even thinking... Do people know for example that Joseph OUTSCORED Perron last year at EVEN STRENGTH? 33 pts for Joseph (+2 on the PK) vs 30 for Perron! And not only we pay Perron 1.0 more and he is 9 years older, we PAID a 3rd round pick in that process.

Joseph is one of the fastest skaters in the league with some of the best PK metrics, younger, cheaper, better all around. That swap was extremely DUMB, makes Dorion look like a genius lol


But possibly a bridge was burnt with the organization... and Joseph had to go

It ruins a RARE good Dorion trade

In the end, we gave away Nick Paul and downgraded a 3rd to a 4th

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

As I said in another thread :

I'd take Joseph over Perron without even thinking... Do people know for example that Joseph OUTSCORED Perron last year at EVEN STRENGTH? 33 pts for Joseph (+2 on the PK) vs 30 for Perron! And not only we pay Perron 1.0 more and he is 9 years older, we PAID a 3rd round pick in that process.

Joseph is one of the fastest skaters in the league with some of the best PK metrics, younger, cheaper, better all around. That swap was extremely DUMB, makes Dorion look like a genius lol

For all we know it could have been an internal issue not related to on ice performance. Maybe

 

[DueDiligence]

Ehh Joseph is the opposite of a "soft" bottom 6 guy.

Only Tkachuk, Kastelic, Kelly and Greig had more hits. All of them who are the opposite of soft.

That trade was idiotic. Simply put. Don't know which team you've been watching. Maybe you're talking about Kubalik?

Joseph's replacement, Amadio, is way softer if that's what you care about. He's also way slower and I'm not sure he will be able to reproduce what he did with Vegas either.

I'd take Joseph on my team no questions asked over the replacement Staois added. This roster started to make sense with the additions + Joseph. Now it doesn't make as much sense.

Hell I'd bet Joseph has a better year than Perron who can barely skate at this point.

I don't have much confidence in those moves. I think they do better purely because of Ullmark and Jensen but the Perron/Amadio/Joseph moves were questionnable at best.

So based on the other transactions SS and team made do you honestly think they all had a gigantic brain fart and cooked up this deal for fun? Joseph is such a valuable asset let's throw in a 3rd rounder as well because the Blues are great guys?
Maybe give your head a shake and consider some logical alternatives as to why Sens management wanted MJ off the team so badly.

 

[Xspyrit]

For all we know it could have been an internal issue not related to on ice performance. Maybe

Yeah, read some comments about it afterwards and it's true, very possible so I added "But possibly a bridge was burnt with the organization... and Joseph had to go"

Sucks if that's the case. They should have traded him before the deadline then, doubt they would have needed to pay to move him then as he was having a very good season.

I mean, Jason Dickinson got signed for $4,250,000 x 2 years... How is Joseph a dump at 2.95? Timing. Not a time to sell marginal/support players

 

[SENStastic]

As a number of people have stated: There are probably other off ice reasons why they wanted to dump this guy so badly. Not sure why you can't accept that.

Cause it sounds like bs, thats why. And that shouldn't mean you should just give him away and piss away even more valuable assets while you're at it on top. Unless there is substantive proof there was any egregious off ice issues that warranted his immediate departure at all cost, then that was a dumb ass move. If you know better, then provide proof. Anything else is just running cover for Saint Staios in my books at this point.

 

[DueDiligence]

Cause it sounds like bs, thats why. And that shouldn't mean you should just give him away and piss away even more valuable assets while you're at it on top. Unless there is substantive proof there was any egregious off ice issues that warranted his immediate departure at all cost, then that was a dumb ass move. If you know better, then provide proof. Anything else is just running cover for Saint Staios in my books at this point.

So you honestly think that If Jacques Martin and Alfie said Joseph was worth keeping that SS would give them a big " F* You" and get rid of him regardless. Seriously???

 

[SENStastic]

So you honestly think that If Jacques Martin and Alfie said Joseph was worth keeping that SS would give them a big " F* You" and get rid of him regardless. Seriously???

So thats the hypothetical reasoning were going to pull to cope with this. Seriously??
Unless there is anything substantive to point to him being an absolute cancer or done something unacceptable, its just another cope, and were just excusing abysmal asset management from the get go that we continue to just throw away. No wonder were the laughing stock of the entire league and continue to have the reputation of being a farming team for the rest of the NHL. The other poster was correct, the amount of mediocrity some of us keep putting up with is astounding.

 

[bicboi64]

Would love to know what Joseph does off ice that makes him such a locker room cancer.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It definitely was, and waivers should've been the first move at the very least if he just wanted him gone asap for some odd reason, but I just don't see the urgency or reasoning of pulling that off this early.

And no I doubt he would slip through without someone picking him up. It's as puzzling as the Walman trade Yzerman made. Bad move on a short but growing list of mediocre moves he's made so far. I'm certainly not the one being OK with mediocrity here. Even if you don't defend his decisions by blaming it all on Dorion, some people certainly have been and I've noticed its being used as a blanket excuse to defend his every decision, sometimes its very warranted, and others not at all, like this example. This one fall squarely on his shoulders, that was my point.

You don't need to put him on waivers when he's been made available to the whole league for a full calendar year. Thinking they should have kept him is one thing, but clearly they couldn't get out of this contract for less than they did, otherwise they would have.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Would love to know what Joseph does off ice that makes him such a locker room cancer.

Doesn't have to be a big cancer thing, he may have just been identified by Martin and/or management as a guy that wasn't giving the effort they wanted or taking things seriously enough. Not a cancer but not pulling the rope hard enough or something.

The only thing we have to go off for behavior is him being benched for that game against his brother and I think Ouroboros claiming there were issues. There's at least some smoke to point to that they weren't overly happy at least once during the season that didn't happen to any other player.