Movies: Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion - Part 4

[S E P H]

I love some of the movies that came out post-Avengers, but I do admit that it sort of "ended" for me after they defeated Thanos. No one cares about Ant-Man Part III, there's too much negativity around GotG III, Thor IV was absolutely useless, and they should have never made a second Black Panther. The Eternals takes the cake of just pure atrociousness. Personally, I think they should go in the show format more since you can elongate storylines and not be reduced to a certain number of screen time.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I love some of the movies that came out post-Avengers, but I do admit that it sort of "ended" for me after they defeated Thanos. No one cares about Ant-Man Part III, there's too much negativity around GotG III, Thor IV was absolutely useless, and they should have never made a second Black Panther. The Eternals takes the cake of just pure atrociousness. Personally, I think they should go in the show format more since you can elongate storylines and not be reduced to a certain number of screen time.

Spider-Man was a fun movie but that was also hugely aided by having Toby, Garfield, and Dafoe do something unprecedented in the genre.

 

[S E P H]

Spider-Man was a fun movie but that was also hugely aided by having Toby, Garfield, and Dafoe do something unprecedented in the genre.

I didn't really include the movies I really loved which included that one, Shang-Chi, and Doctor Strange II (which reminded me so much of the Hive from Destiny). E: Also thought that Black Widow was quite good too.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The fatigue is real. This all feels like killing time while waiting for Phase 6.

Also, to this point the Multiverse Saga is feeling considerably less culturally relevant than the Infinity Saga.

They really dropped the ball with the Multiverse.

Golden opportunity to seamlessly bring in the F4 or X-Men and they did neither except for the 5 min waste in Dr Strange 2

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Losing Chadwick Boseman really hurt as I feel he could have been the leader or at least the co-leader of the new Avengers that would still provide an audience draw for the MCU. It seems like most or all of the new heroes really lack the charisma of the previous generation.

77% is fine for the new Guardians movie. We will see how the fans judge it. If it's enjoyable I'm sure it can pull in $350 - $400 million domestically and over $800 million internationally.

 

[Jussi]

Losing Chadwick Boseman really hurt as I feel he could have been the leader or at least the co-leader of the new Avengers that would still provide an audience draw for the MCU. It seems like most or all of the new heroes really lack the charisma of the previous generation.

77% is fine for the new Guardians movie. We will see how the fans judge it. If it's enjoyable I'm sure it can pull in $350 - $400 million domestically and over $800 million internationally.

It's actually 80% Fresh: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3

Verifired Audience Ratings are beginning to pop up, 98% with 50+ ratings so far.

 

[BertCorbeau]

They really dropped the ball with the Multiverse.

Golden opportunity to seamlessly bring in the F4 or X-Men and they did neither except for the 5 min waste in Dr Strange 2

But they are bringing in the F4 and have teased the X-Men.

I agree there's fatigue... after the pinnacle of Endgame it was nearly impossible to one-up that saga within the few movies. Essentially they're rebuilding to the next big event, so a dip was expected in excitement. Now the movies have had their issues, don't get me wrong. One factor is the lingering Endgame questions that needed answered to propel the story forward.

The shows have helped address those smaller details and I think the pandemic had its effect on the overall quality.

I think part of the issue is that they've put a lot of focus on building for the next big event in the foreground rather than a quality movie. Then again the MCU has grown in complexity that it's quite difficult to address everything within a 2-3 hour movie.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I think part of the issue is that they've put a lot of focus on building for the next big event in the foreground rather than a quality movie. Then again the MCU has grown in complexity that it's quite difficult to address everything within a 2-3 hour movie.

Definitely.

I think there's a little bit of recency bias too. I think people overrate how "planned" the MCU initially was. Yes, they were building to The Avengers and eventually Thanos but it's clear in several of those phase 1 and 2 movies that they weren't exactly sure who the characters were and how to totally get where they wanted to go. They got there, but there's quite a few bumps along the way. I feel like folks forget that.

I feel like there was more freedom for the creative teams then (some for good, some for not), but now post Endgame it feels very much locked into a formula or method. Very samey. Too concerned with platforming what and who is next and less concerned with telling a focused story. A lot of the old connective tissue was in credits scenes. Now they need to be part of the movies.

I feel like Wakanda Forever is a really good example of this. Ryan Coogler clearly has a story he wanted to tell but it also had to set up Ironheart and keep Valentina present in the overall MCU. Too much. Unfocused.

But I also feel like folks forget that the MCU has made mediocre or even bad movies prior to phase 4. They ain't all bangers.

It's like when your team wins the Cup (I'm a Blue Jackets fan so I'm just assuming here), you forget those bad games and losses along the way. The MCU won the Cup so to speak, so folks forgive and forget the losses that came before.

We're into the next season now and I feel like there are issues with the system and the players ... they pulled it together before, but was that because of dumb luck or skill? (Probably a little of both). Can they do it again?

 

[S E P H]

You lots obsession over critics and rankings is a bit weird, like the stuff that you like and don't care what other people think. I like anime and I think the majority of people in the world don't care about it, doesn't really impact me.

 

[S E P H]

But I also feel like folks forget that the MCU has made mediocre or even bad movies prior to phase 4. They ain't all bangers.

Oh there were bad movies pre-Phase 4, but people were able to withstand it due to an end goal which was topped off by Thanos. I know that anime is niche, but the same thing happened in Bleach. In Bleach, Aizen was such a well-done and well-crafted main bad guy that the arc that came afterwards was so anticlimactic because the new villain just couldn't match the emotion needed/invested from the viewers to care. I don't know who the main bad guy plans to be in this next instalment, but you have the Celestials from The Eternals, but they were so poorly done that I am not sure the next phase will ever recover if that is who they want to be Thanos 2.0.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

You lots obsession over critics and rankings is a bit weird, like the stuff that you like and don't care what other people think. I like anime and I think the majority of people in the world don't care about it, doesn't really impact me.

Amen to this.

 

[Jussi]

You lots obsession over critics and rankings is a bit weird, like the stuff that you like and don't care what other people think. I like anime and I think the majority of people in the world don't care about it, doesn't really impact me.

You do know what site you're on?

 

[RandV]

You lots obsession over critics and rankings is a bit weird, like the stuff that you like and don't care what other people think. I like anime and I think the majority of people in the world don't care about it, doesn't really impact me.

Some people put to much thought into how critics work. My assumption but generally I would believe professional movie critics have attended some sort of film school, and have a broader understanding of the craft of film making. Their good at critiquing a film festival or Oscar baits, while the Marvel Movies are pure junk food. These are the movies that bring in the big box office revenue, but there's far, far more movie's that get made than just what Marvel & the like put out.

Generally if you need a critic review to determine 'will I like this movie and should I go see it', I would say it's better to find a specific reviewer, not necessarily professional but could just be some youtuber or whatever, and rely on them. Rather than focus on an overall critic ranking score as if these were video games and you need justification for the game you like.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I just started watching them in timeline order, so that includes the shows and one-shots and whatever, and it’s been alright. I’ve actually enjoyed the shows more than the movies, even if Agent Carter and now Agents of Shield are way too “normal 8pm on Thursday night” compared to the rest.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Some people put to much thought into how critics work. My assumption but generally I would believe professional movie critics have attended some sort of film school, and have a broader understanding of the craft of film making. Their good at critiquing a film festival or Oscar baits, while the Marvel Movies are pure junk food. These are the movies that bring in the big box office revenue, but there's far, far more movie's that get made than just what Marvel & the like put out.

Generally if you need a critic review to determine 'will I like this movie and should I go see it', I would say it's better to find a specific reviewer, not necessarily professional but could just be some youtuber or whatever, and rely on them. Rather than focus on an overall critic ranking score as if these were video games and you need justification for the game you like.

That's a good point. I've noticed comedies and horror movies generally get 6/10's and 7/10's when they're rated on IMDB. These movies are too broadly appealing to be super tightly written, they're supposed to be cheap and easy fun.

 

[MMC]

So I skipped Eternals but besides that I'd been seeing every release in theaters since the first Avengers movie until MoM, except for TLaT which I saw in theaters with my girlfriend last year. Catching up on Phase 4 now as my grandma loves the Guardians movies and wants to see GotG3 this weekend, and while I don't hate these movies, I'm just so unimpressed by the narrative, and to me this started all the way back with Endgame, which I thought was a very weak movie despite the praise. I liked NWH and Shang-Chi a lot, but I thought Black Widow, TLaT, and the first half of Eternals (which I'll still finish within the next few days) were awful. Didn't really like MoM which I watched last night. Sure hope I enjoy BPWF and Quantumania more

 

[MMC]

How would you guys rank the Phase 4 films? I keep forgetting that BPWF was the end of it

 

[BertCorbeau]

How would you guys rank the Phase 4 films? I keep forgetting that BPWF was the end of it

For me:

No Way Home
Shang-Chi
Wakanda Forever
Multiverse of Madness
Black Widow
Eternals
Love and Thunder

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

How would you guys rank the Phase 4 films? I keep forgetting that BPWF was the end of it

For me:

No Way Home
Shang-Chi
Wakanda Forever
Multiverse of Madness
Black Widow
Eternals
Love and Thunder

I'll go in the opposite direction:

1. Eternals
-
2. Thor: Love and Thunder
3. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
4. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
-
5. Spiderman: No way Home
6. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
-
-
-
7. Black Widow

2-3-4 could be in any order.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'll go in the opposite direction:

1. Eternals
-
2. Thor: Love and Thunder
3. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
4. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
-
5. Spiderman: No way Home
6. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
-
-
-
7. Black Widow

2-3-4 could be in any order.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

View attachment 708485

Of course, and not one I care for. I have none of these films above 4/10, so tomato/tomato.

 

[Roo Returns]

But they are bringing in the F4 and have teased the X-Men.

I agree there's fatigue... after the pinnacle of Endgame it was nearly impossible to one-up that saga within the few movies. Essentially they're rebuilding to the next big event, so a dip was expected in excitement. Now the movies have had their issues, don't get me wrong. One factor is the lingering Endgame questions that needed answered to propel the story forward.

The shows have helped address those smaller details and I think the pandemic had its effect on the overall quality.

I think part of the issue is that they've put a lot of focus on building for the next big event in the foreground rather than a quality movie. Then again the MCU has grown in complexity that it's quite difficult to address everything within a 2-3 hour movie.

If they do X-Men and F4 right, they won't need to rely on Kang at all. And both can have huge climaxes and major events that will get people talking and good reviews without having to try and redo Infinite War/End Game.

I'm cautiously hopeful for X-Men being a huge fan of the comics. They have literally 100 characters to play around with and don't need to really on the Xavier vs. Magneto thing immediately or make everything so Jean centric. Stick to the Claremont stuff. Mojoverse, Inferno, Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants, Outback X-Men, Genosha, even Arcade or Fitzroy are all events or villains that they can start with. You don't need to even have the rosters be 100% the same as they were in those arcs. They don't even need an Xavier at first. You can spend a movie based on that excellent story around 273-277 where they have to find him in the Shiar Empire. This can all lead to the Magneto eventually appearing and them telling the 1991 X-Men #1 Asteroid M arc, or Professor X becomes Onslaught. A zillion ways they can go. No more Phoenix. They've whiffed twice.

FF is a little different as the main stuff to do is Doctor Doom and Galactus, both of which they tried and failed. If they want to link F4 and X-Men, they can get creative and involve a future Franklin Richards.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Multiverse of Madness
Shang-Chi

Love and Thunder
No Way Home
Wakanda Forever
Eternals
Black Widow

Multiverse is the only one I thoroughly enjoyed. Shang-Chi is solid. Everything after that is a big jumble of flawed, bad and/or forgettable.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Shang-Chi
Wakanda Forever
Black Widow
Multiverse of Madness
Eternals
No Way Home

Love and Thunder


I know I'm in the minority, here, but I thought No Way Home wasn't good. Other than the awesomeness of seeing the 3 Spiderman's in the same movie, the actual movie was a mess. And having Doc Oc and eventually Green Goblin turn good is as bad of an idea as introducing Reed Richards and killing him off in 3 minutes.

 

[barriers]

Shang-Chi

No Way Home
Wakanda Forever
Multiverse of Madness

Black Widow
Eternals
Love & Thunder