Here we go again. If there is no Cup and you have now sacrificed two draft picks, while having a cupboard that is bereft of young talent, how is it a "win"?
Marty St. Louis
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Seriously.
You are going on the premise that the picks will be a bust. I am going on the premise that you have no idea if they will or will not be a bust. But when a team has a barren farm system and the general consensus is that they are NOT a "one player away" team, then you do not sacrifice more bullets in making a "one player away" trade.
So, yes, giving up picks for entertainment is a looser of a trade. A season need not be a success only if it results in a Cup. But a win NOW trade that involves sacrificing of much needed assets can in fact qualify to be a bust of a trade if it does not net the ultimate prize. To me, the risk reward of 1.25 years of MSL vs. 2 draft picks is not there. MSL had all the leverage. He picked the team that he demanded to be traded to.
Amazing Kreiderman
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The problem is that we were not 1 move away from being a contender. We were at least 3 moves away from that. MSL got us closer, but not close enough to win the Cup. We still need a quality center and a scoring winger.
pld459666
Registered User
there are a few bright posters here. Fewer and fewer as the years go by. Alot of you can articulate your points. Doesn't make you right.
The most immediate assumption from alot of you, when someone calls out a soft player for being soft is that we want the knuckle draggers and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Watch the Sharks/Kings series.
THAT is the kind of physicality I want on the Rangers.
I'll be honest. I like my fighters, but even I have to admit that it seems less and less of a need.
But being able to physically wear down your opponent will never be regulated out of the game.
I believe if we are to advance past the Flyers, a good reason that we may get past the Penguins is going to be due in large part to the physicality of the Bluejackets.
And as much as i will root for the Rangers.
I give this team zero chance against the Bruins should we meet them in the Eastern Conference Finals.
Guys don't have to be idiots like Read and Simmonds and Hartnell to be physical. That's fake physicality. That doen't scare or impress anyone other than the Flyers fans that are someewhat stupid to begin with.
I want guys with a certain level of determination that exceed what we currently sport right now.
I want guys that want to live in the crease, that make it a point to be there and stay there. We have alot of guys that would prefer to not toucj the blue paint and the guys that we DO have that like to go there, are to small to stay there.
Three games in MSL has 0 credited hits. Nash has 1, Richards 3, Stepan 4
Zuccs has more than all four combined.
It's not a matter of throwing punches at the opposition. But it is about wearing them down and I really do not believe that the Rangers do enough in that regards and I want more. Especially from the team leaders.
The most immediate assumption from alot of you, when someone calls out a soft player for being soft is that we want the knuckle draggers and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Watch the Sharks/Kings series.
THAT is the kind of physicality I want on the Rangers.
I'll be honest. I like my fighters, but even I have to admit that it seems less and less of a need.
But being able to physically wear down your opponent will never be regulated out of the game.
I believe if we are to advance past the Flyers, a good reason that we may get past the Penguins is going to be due in large part to the physicality of the Bluejackets.
And as much as i will root for the Rangers.
I give this team zero chance against the Bruins should we meet them in the Eastern Conference Finals.
Guys don't have to be idiots like Read and Simmonds and Hartnell to be physical. That's fake physicality. That doen't scare or impress anyone other than the Flyers fans that are someewhat stupid to begin with.
I want guys with a certain level of determination that exceed what we currently sport right now.
I want guys that want to live in the crease, that make it a point to be there and stay there. We have alot of guys that would prefer to not toucj the blue paint and the guys that we DO have that like to go there, are to small to stay there.
Three games in MSL has 0 credited hits. Nash has 1, Richards 3, Stepan 4
Zuccs has more than all four combined.
It's not a matter of throwing punches at the opposition. But it is about wearing them down and I really do not believe that the Rangers do enough in that regards and I want more. Especially from the team leaders.
pld459666
Registered User
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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pld459666
Registered User
Neither Chicago nor Detroit in their heydey were super tough. Sure they had their tougher grinders, but those teams aren't/weren't all that physical. No we don't have that talent, but there isn't one correct way to play the game.
HockeyBasedNYC
Feeling it
Its a win for Dolan and his added playoff revenue and jersey sales. Apologize for the smarmy response.
pld459666
Registered User
Clearly he's not like "alot" of us that can articulate our words.
Just kidding!
I'm not.
It's so frustrating sometimes.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
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Inferno
Registered User
you have absolutely no way of know what the prospects would be.
What if the Rangers traded away the rights to Hugh Jessiman a year after he was drafted for a player to help them then? Would you have been up in arms? The team would have been further away from a cup than they are now. but NOBODY here wouldnt go back in time and trade away Hugh Jessiman for some 3rd line help on the team the year before he was drafted.
while i agree with you in that I personally would not have made the trade. I vehemently disagree that the absolute only way this is a good trade is if the Rangers win the cup.
If the rangers get to the SCF...its a win.
If the Rangers get to the ECF...its a win.
It's hard to get that far. Only 4 teams in the NHL get to that level ever year. being in the final 4 absolutely PROVES that you were only 1 piece away from winning it all, because at that point, its all a crapshoot and tends to be more about injuries and hot goalies than anything else. rarely does a team just manhandle the opposition the way the Kings did a few years ago.
The Blackhawks were a game 7 overtime goal away from being eliminated IN THE FIRST ROUND.
Does that mean they werent cup contenders because of the way they finished in the playoffs had that actually happened?
I think its over-the-top ridiculous to say what youre saying.
but, you are entitled to your opinion. as am i.
Its not smarmy, its the truth.
Do people really buy Martin St. Louis Ranger jerseys? Its so bizarre to me.
pld459666
Registered User
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,067
- 17,708
Your biggest issue is correlating sportsmanship with not being tough. Is Ryan O'Reilly not tough?
This is seriously moronic and a ridiculous mindset.
It was a game 7 OT goal away from being eliminated in the 2nd round, but 1st round for the Bruins the 2 times they made the finals.
Given our 30 year history with number one picks, can't really be mad that they gave couple away for MSL. For us, the number 1 pick is a waste of a pick given the horrid record.
Carkner (14th overall), More (10th), Rice (20th), Stewart (13th), Ferraro (24th), Cloutier (26th), Brown (22nd), Cherneski (19th), Malhotra (7th), Brendl (4th), Jessiman (12th), Montoya (6th), Sanguinetti (21st).
Kovalev and Leetch are probably the best that we've gotten in first round.
Carkner (14th overall), More (10th), Rice (20th), Stewart (13th), Ferraro (24th), Cloutier (26th), Brown (22nd), Cherneski (19th), Malhotra (7th), Brendl (4th), Jessiman (12th), Montoya (6th), Sanguinetti (21st).
Kovalev and Leetch are probably the best that we've gotten in first round.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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Do you not see the double standard here?
With the draft picks, you're willing to accept uncertainty, but with St. Louis, there's two outcomes: Cup or no Cup.
pld459666
Registered User
So. You pick out the anomaly.
Prefer Lucic. But that's me.
Let me add that I am a fan of Ro'R and would prefer him to Stepan
There's nothing in that award that precludes players from being good players or makes them soft. If a player who is soft and not that great wins it it's not because of the award. MSL and Marleau are 2 fantastic players too, playing on playoff teams, one of which is a clear SC favorite. It's not like it's Wolski getting nominated every year.
past winners of the lady byng in the last 20 years are MSL, datsyuk, brad richards, campbell, kariya, moginly, sakic, gretzky, francis, demitra. pretty decent list. those are also guys that won cups and were big reasons why their team won cups...
pld459666
Registered User
I never said they weren't GOOD players. Just that they are soft players. And the list provided doesn't change my opinion at all.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I tend to disagree with the view that the Rangers are bad, historically, at drafting in the first round. For one thing, Carkner, More, Cloutier, Cherneski, and Malhotra weren't busts. Carkner played over 850 games. More, while never a top pairing guy, played over 400 games and then suffered a career-ending injury at 28. Cloutier played over 350 games, including 5 years as a starter. Cherneski's career was cut short by injury before it even began. Malhotra turned out to be a top tier 3rd liner.
Cherneski's story is more common with prospects than people like to admit, even if it was more dramatic than most. Jim Malone, the Rangers 1st round pick, had his career basically ended by a knee injury. Dan Blackburn's story is well known. As is Alexei Cherepanov's. I actually put Hugh Jessiman in that list too, as he was never the same after his ankle injury.
Since 1980, the Rangers have drafted Patrick, Carkner, Gagner, Dahlen, Leetch, More, Kovalev, Sundstrom, Cloutier, Malhotra, Korpikoski, Staal, and Del Zotto in the first round. 13 1st rounders with successful NHL careers in 28 years. That's a 46% success rate, which is fairly standard in the NHL. Especially since they only had 1 top-5 pick in that span. The reason it doesn't seem that way is because about half of them spent the best years of their careers somewhere else.
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