Martin Brodeur vs Dominik Hasek, who would you draft

[Video Nasty]

In 2012 when Brodeur allegedly carried them to the Finals, Kovalchuk was 5th in the NHL in scoring. Elias was 10th. Parise was 23rd.

In 1998-99, when Hasek dragged the Sabres to the Cup Finals, Miroslav Satan was 27th in the NHL in scoring, and the only Sabre in the top 50.

Sounds good until you reconsider that the 1999 Sabres and 2012 Devils scored the exact same number of goals in the playoffs…while the Devils played 3 games more, and managed just 7 goals on Quick in 6 games, while Brodeur was 40.

 

[CuuuJooo]

You're wrong if you think that any goalie would have put up similar results, the trap worked so well for NJ because of Brodeur and his puck handling ability,

The gap between Marty and Dom as a goalie isn't nearly as massive as the gap between their puck handling skills was. Most people that just throw this fact away, have never seen a goalie handle the puck like Brodeur did.

People will never truly understand how much the Devils benefited from having Marty in the net, I watched it, felt like every time the other team dumped the puck in, Marty grabbed it and cleared the zone, this isn't something that every goalie 4-12 could do. In fact, none of them could.

100% agree that Brodeur revolutionized puckhandling (hell, they invented the trapazoid for him!). But no one (IMHO) was better at stopping pucks -- and in so many different ways, to the point that shooters never knew what to expect -- than Hasek.

 

[Romang67]

I would imagine that's in reference to Hasek carrying the 1998 Czech Olympic hockey team to the gold medal (a team that only had 1 HOF'er aside from Hasek). The Czech were outshot 89-71 over the three elimination games. The three opponents featured 22(!) HOF'ers. Hasek did okay, allowing 2 goals on 89 shots in the process, and he stopped all five Canadian players in the shootout. He was also named tournament MVP.

Biggest upset in Olympic history. Screw the Miracle on Ice.

3 games is nice.

If only Bobby Clarke (notable Brodeur hater) would have picked a better roster and started the right goalie that year. But I digress

Can you do it for 367 games over 4 years like brodeur did from 1999-2003 to win 2 cups and a gold medal?

Are we at the point of the debate where we're only looking at wins?

Because Hasek's 1995-1999 years saw him winning 2 Hart Trophies, 3 Vezina Trophies, and one Olympic gold where he was undeniably the tournament MVP.

So yeah, I guess Hasek could do it for more than 3 games.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

100% agree that Brodeur revolutionized puckhandling (hell, they invented the trapazoid for him!). But no one (IMHO) was better at stopping pucks -- and in so many different ways, to the point that shooters never knew what to expect -- than Hasek.

100% agree

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Sounds good until you reconsider that the 1999 Sabres and 2012 Devils scored the exact same number of goals in the playoffs…while the Devils played 3 games more, and managed just 7 goals on Quick in 6 games, while Brodeur was 40.

Does scoring the same number of goals in the playoffs against totally different opponents in totally different eras of the NHL somehow prove both teams were offensively equal? Or did that Devils team struggle despite being more talented, while the Sabres overachieved?

 

[nergish]

There's only like 4-5 players period I'd draft ahead of Martin Brodeur, tbh.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

There's only like 4-5 players period I'd draft ahead of Martin Brodeur, tbh.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Roy, and Hasek?

 

[FMichael]

I'll take heat for this, but as a Wings fan I'd take a prime Brodeur over Hasek.

 

[nergish]

Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Roy, and Hasek?

Lol every single time I give Marty his due praise, I'm met with some sort of remark like this.

I'm taking the winningest goaltender of all time to build my team around. It's really that simple.

 

[Video Nasty]

Does scoring the same number of goals in the playoffs against totally different opponents in totally different eras of the NHL somehow prove both teams were offensively equal? Or did that Devils team struggle despite being more talented, while the Sabres overachieved?

If that’s the case, how can you describe Hasek as dragging them to the Finals then? Seems like his team helped him a bit more than the fairy tale about him being on a one-man island would have us believe.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Lol every single time I give Marty his due praise, I'm met with some sort of remark like this.

I'm taking the winningest goaltender of all time to build my team around. It's really that simple.

Simple answers aren't always the right one.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

At least 1. Stephane Ricter was tied for 49th in 95, and probably would have been higher if he hadn't missed a couple games.

I think the problem is you're giving Hasek credit for his time spent on mediocre teams while focusing solely on Brodeur's good teams.

If you remove every game Brodeur played with the Stevens/Niedermayer and Hasek's time on the super team in Detroit... Marty won 319 games and Hasek won 275. Feel free to double check, I quickly tried to math while at work.

I completely understand and support anyone taking Hasek, IMO he's the best goalie to every play the game but people tend to focus on only the seasons Brodeur had Stevens/Niedermayer and the Hasek seasons where he wasn't on a stacked team.

 

[dgibb10]

I think the problem is you're giving Hasek credit for his time spent on mediocre teams while focusing solely on Brodeur's good teams.

If you remove every game Brodeur played with the Stevens/Niedermayer and Hasek's time on the super team in Detroit... Marty won 319 games and Hasek won 275. Feel free to double check, I quickly tried to math while at work.

I completely understand and support anyone taking Hasek, IMO he's the best goalie to every play the game but people tend to focus on only the seasons Brodeur had Stevens/Niedermayer and the Hasek seasons where he wasn't on a stacked team.

Take out that ottawa superteam too.

1st in the league in scoring and made the cup the following year without hasek.

 

[NyQuil]

Biggest upset in Olympic history. Screw the Miracle on Ice.

Aside from the Gold at the Olympics in 1998, the Czechs would also win the World Championships for three straight years, in 1999, 2000 and 2001, as well as the World Juniors in 2000 and 2001.

Calling it the biggest upset ever is a bit of a disservice to the quality of hockey the Czechs were playing at the time, often without Hasek between the pipes.

The answer to the poll is clearly Hasek, but I think a lot of people underestimated the talent and team game of the Czechs.

 

[Romang67]

I think the problem is you're giving Hasek credit for his time spent on mediocre teams while focusing solely on Brodeur's good teams.

If you remove every game Brodeur played with the Stevens/Niedermayer and Hasek's time on the super team in Detroit... Marty won 319 games and Hasek won 275. Feel free to double check, I quickly tried to math while at work.

I completely understand and support anyone taking Hasek, IMO he's the best goalie to every play the game but people tend to focus on only the seasons Brodeur had Stevens/Niedermayer and the Hasek seasons where he wasn't on a stacked team.

Weren't all of those games in a post-tie era for Brodeur, and a pre-tie era for Hasek?

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

Hasek is the best goaltender ever

Brodeur is the greatest goaltender ever

Theres a difference

 

[nergish]

Simple answers aren't always the right one.

Such wisdom!

I know, but I'm also a goaltender myself, who grew up watching these guys in the 90s. You will never get me to pick Hasek above Marty, even with a gun to my head.

I've warmed up to the idea of Roy being GOAT, after considering his impact on the position overall.

But in my heart, it's always been Marty. He was every bit as bold and playful in the crease as Dom was, and possibly even more competitive. Superior puckhandling, obviously!

Does anybody here truly think that Martin Brodeur would not have been the player he was if he didn't play for New Jersey? It's just ludicrous to me. He was one of the most ultra-competitive, cocky athletes to ever play the game... the man was not going to be denied his place in history.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Weren't all of those games in a post-tie era for Brodeur, and a pre-tie era for Hasek?

If we take out Marty's 42 shoot out wins Marty has 277 and Hasek still has 275

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If that’s the case, how can you describe Hasek as dragging them to the Finals then? Seems like his team helped him a bit more than the fairy tale about him being on a one-man island would have us believe.

Because they qualified as the 7th seed, and he put up a league leading 0.939 SV% and a 1.77 GAA. All but two of the games they won, he gave up fewer than 2 goals. He gave up 6 goals on 162 shots against Ottawa to sweep the first round. But, sure, his team padded their goal totals against Toronto, while he kept the highest scoring team in the NHL to 6 goals in the last 3 games.

 

[Video Nasty]

Because they qualified as the 7th seed, and he put up a league leading 0.939 SV% and a 1.77 GAA. All but two of the games they won, he gave up fewer than 2 goals. He gave up 6 goals on 162 shots against Ottawa to sweep the first round. But, sure, his team padded their goal totals against Toronto, while he kept the highest scoring team in the NHL to 6 goals in the last 3 games.

Listen, Hasek was the better goalie, but I don’t see the need to pull down or hand wave away what Brodeur accomplished to try and prove that, which is what you were doing.

 

[dgibb10]

Because they qualified as the 7th seed, and he put up a league leading 0.939 SV% and a 1.77 GAA. All but two of the games they won, he gave up fewer than 2 goals. He gave up 6 goals on 162 shots against Ottawa to sweep the first round. But, sure, his team padded their goal totals against Toronto, while he kept the highest scoring team in the NHL to 6 goals in the last 3 games.

Maybe if Hasek played an extra 10 games like brodeur did every year they'd have been a higher seed

 

[Romang67]

Maybe if Hasek played an extra 10 games like brodeur did every year they'd have been a higher seed

Brodeur played 70 games in 1999, to Hasek's 64.

 

[dgibb10]

Brodeur played 70 games in 1999, to Hasek's 64.

Ensuring NJD got the 1 seed yes

Anyway the GM who Drafted Brodeur has been able to remain a GM for the last 30 years because of it

 

[Romang67]

Ensuring NJD got the 1 seed yes

How did that work out for them in the playoffs?

You know, since you just implied that Hasek should have played more games to put them at a higher seed.

 

[dgibb10]

How did that work out for them in the playoffs?

You know, since you just implied that Hasek should have played more games to put them at a higher seed.

It worked out great for them since they won 3 cups.