Martin Brodeur vs Dominik Hasek, who would you draft

[Finlandia WOAT]

Well, I hate the NHL, and Brodeur and the trapping Devils nearly killed the NHL, so Brodeur, to finish the job

 

[Romang67]

European goalie who took a long time to come over vs european goalie who took a long time to come over.

Hasek came over at age 26 and still didn't become an NHL starter for another 3 years, why are we adding a half decade of presumed elite play to him before that

You aren't actually under the impression that all European countries are alike, right? What player out of Czechia has remained in Europe until their mid 20s despite being wanted in the NHL?

 

[Goptor]

Unless you read the thread beyond the first post, I guess.

The topic says you get the good with the bad.

He was drafted in 1983. Didn't come over to NHL until 1990. Shuffled between NHL and minor leagues for 2 years playing solid but clearly not prime Hasek. Then he goes to Buffalo for his age 29 season and everything clicks.

There isn't a single person that will argue Brodeur is better than Hasek's prime.

 

[dgibb10]

You aren't actually under the impression that all European countries are alike, right? What player out of Czechia has remained in Europe until their mid 20s despite being wanted in the NHL?

Hasek came over at 26. He still didn't become a starter until 29.

Why are we assuming he could be a starter, let alone an elite goaltender, at an even younger age if he couldn't be one at ages 26, 27, or 28

 

[Romang67]

Hasek came over at 26. He still didn't become a starter until 29.

Why are we assuming he could be a starter, let alone an elite goaltender, at an even younger age if he couldn't be one at ages 26, 27, or 28

Yes, he wasn't able to immediately dethrone Vezina level Eddie Belfour when he came over.

What about his play in Europe tells you that he wouldn't have been capable over being a starter at a younger age than 29?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Brodeur votes are for Devils fans and >25 year olds.

Did you turn the < sign the wrong way? Otherwise I’m having a hard time reconciling this comment with the following:

No amount of explaining how good Brodeur's puck handling was will change the mind of someone who witnessed both players.

Anyway, I actually think it’s a lot easier to make a case for Brodeur if you saw both players than if you didn’t. Statistically Hasek had the most dominant goalie peak of all time. His highlight reel is probably the best of all time, which means younger fans tend to actually understand how good he was. He seems to be the consensus GOAT goalie even among people who didn’t see him at all.

What younger folks might not know is how often Hasek managed to be in the middle of dressing room disruption, a lot of it serious enough to spill over into the public eye. He wasn’t necessarily the bad guy in every situation, but he kept managing to get himself involved in drama. And he became a team-hopper in the back half of his career, notably orchestrating his own trade out of Buffalo and ****ing over the organization in the process.

Those memories are not brought up very often, but they’re relevant to the specific question in this thread. It’s hard to imagine Hasek having a 20 year career anywhere. It wasn’t even a given that he’d last the 9 years in Buffalo. That’s a pretty big disadvantage against a guy who’s going to give you 21 seasons without the drama.

 

[pi314]

You're wrong if you think that any goalie would have put up similar results, the trap worked so well for NJ because of Brodeur and his puck handling ability,

The gap between Marty and Dom as a goalie isn't nearly as massive as the gap between their puck handling skills was. Most people that just throw this fact away, have never seen a goalie handle the puck like Brodeur did.

People will never truly understand how much the Devils benefited from having Marty in the net, I watched it, felt like every time the other team dumped the puck in, Marty grabbed it and cleared the zone, this isn't something that every goalie 4-12 could do. In fact, none of them could.

I'm a Hasek guy personally but...

...I have a friend who was a former 14-year NHL pro.

He echoes what you just said and swears Brodeur is the best goalie he ever played against.

 

[dgibb10]

Yes, he wasn't able to immediately dethrone Vezina level Eddie Belfour when he came over.

What about his play in Europe tells you that he wouldn't have been capable over being a starter at a younger age than 29?

Some guys were already elite NHL goalies at age 21 and didn't have to spend time in the minors at age 27

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I'm a Hasek guy personally but...

...I have a friend who was a former 14-year NHL pro.

He echoes what you just said and swears Brodeur is the best goalie he ever played against.

Your friend seems like a smart guy!

 

[Romang67]

Man, imagine coming over from behind the iron curtain where you've been the starter for your team in Czechia since you were 17, not immediately getting the starting position ahead of Ed Belfour who won the Vezina both that year and two years later, equalling Belfour's save percentage in year 2, getting traded and eclipsing the save percentage of other Vezina Trophy winner and established veteran Grant Fuhr, and then when he got the starting position as Fuhr got injured, put up a save percentage of .930, in one of the most dominant goaltending seasons ever...

And having people question whether you really had what it took to be a starter before age 29.

Some guys were already elite NHL goalies at age 21 and didn't have to spend time in the minors at age 27

Quiz time: Why was it impossible for Hasek to be an elite NHL goalie at age 21?

A) He didn't have the talent
B) He couldn't possibly play 67 games in a single season
C) He was stuck behind the iron curtain

 

[Caps8112]

Some guys were already elite NHL goalies at age 21 and didn't have to spend time in the minors at age 27

This is just silly. No rookie was coming in and taking Belfours job

 

[Beef Invictus]

I take Hasek. Far better AffairsWithFamilyMembers/60 rates than Brodeur.

 

[Romang67]

I take Hasek. Far better AffairsWithFamilyMembers/60 rates than Brodeur.

That's highly debatable. Lower? I'll give you that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's highly debatable. Lower? I'll give you that.

Your Thanksgivings must get weird

 

[dgibb10]

Man, imagine coming over from behind the iron curtain where you've been the starter for your team in Czechia since you were 17, not immediately getting the starting position ahead of Ed Belfour who won the Vezina both that year and two years later, equalling Belfour's save percentage in year 2, getting traded and eclipsing the save percentage of other Vezina Trophy winner and established veteran Grant Fuhr, and then when he got the starting position as Fuhr got injured, put up a save percentage of .930, in one of the most dominant goaltending seasons ever...

And having people question whether you really had what it took to be a starter before age 29.


Quiz time: Why was it impossible for Hasek to be an elite NHL goalie at age 21?

A) He didn't have the talent
B) He couldn't possibly play 67 games in a single season
C) He was stuck behind the iron curtain

Well considering the claim from hasek fans is that Hasek would have been a vezina caliber goalie (like broduer was in his early-mid 20s), yes I think expecting him to split starts from a vezina caliber goalie is reasonable, especially considering belfour was younger than him.

 

[herashak]

Brodeur, consistency is the most important franchise goalie trait even if Hasek could go on better heaters

 

[Romang67]

Well considering the claim from hasek fans is that Hasek would have been a vezina caliber goalie (like broduer was in his early-mid 20s), yes I think expecting him to split starts from a vezina caliber goalie is reasonable, especially considering belfour was younger than him.

It's weird how the Blackhawks coaching staff didn't realize that Belfour was 3 months younger than Hasek and made the starting spot a true open competition.

But hey, maybe they did, and the fact that Belfour got the starting position was completely unrelated to the team's history with Belfour and that Hasek had just come over from Europe. Can't really blame them too much, given that Belfour won 2 Vezina trophies in 3 years after he joined the team full time.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That's highly debatable. Lower? I'll give you that.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

Hasek clearly had the better peak. No one could argue that. He’s the best pure puck stopper of all time. Take any single shot in any given situation and Hasek is the goalie most likely to stop that shot in NHL history. That being said, I’m a devils fan who was cemented as a fan for life by watching Brodeur. There is no goalie in the history of the league who means more to their team than Brodeur does to the devils. A calm goalie who made everyone’s job easier to play in front of, for 1266 games over 20 years. I can’t hope for something different than that.

 

[hamzarocks]

Hasek is the 6th best player ever and at lowest 8th

MB is 25-50th best player ever

They are not comparable player

 

[Bouboumaster]

Hasek, but I mean, worst case you get a top 5 goalies of all time with Brodeur

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Did you turn the < sign the wrong way? Otherwise I’m having a hard time reconciling this comment with the following:





Anyway, I actually think it’s a lot easier to make a case for Brodeur if you saw both players than if you didn’t. Statistically Hasek had the most dominant goalie peak of all time. His highlight reel is probably the best of all time, which means younger fans tend to actually understand how good he was. He seems to be the consensus GOAT goalie even among people who didn’t see him at all.

What younger folks might not know is how often Hasek managed to be in the middle of dressing room disruption, a lot of it serious enough to spill over into the public eye. He wasn’t necessarily the bad guy in every situation, but he kept managing to get himself involved in drama. And he became a team-hopper in the back half of his career, notably orchestrating his own trade out of Buffalo and ****ing over the organization in the process.

Those memories are not brought up very often, but they’re relevant to the specific question in this thread. It’s hard to imagine Hasek having a 20 year career anywhere. It wasn’t even a given that he’d last the 9 years in Buffalo. That’s a pretty big disadvantage against a guy who’s going to give you 21 seasons without the drama.

Do you think Brodeur would have still played "21 seasons without the drama" if he was standing on his head most nights but still losing games in Buffalo because they couldn't build a halfway decent team around him?

 

[JianYang]

90s kids playing goalie always pretend they were Hasek

I used to pretend to be Roy. I copied his praying to the goalposts and the butterfly style lol

 

[tarheelhockey]

Do you think Brodeur would have still played "21 seasons without the drama" if he was standing on his head most nights but still losing games in Buffalo because they couldn't build a halfway decent team around him?

Maybe? I mean there’s no specific reason to think he wouldn’t.

Hasek got into off ice behavior that can’t be explained simply by playing for a mediocre team. It’s extremely hard to imagine a reality where he’s all business and a lifetime company man. That’s just not who he is as a person.

 

[Albatros]

That’s a pretty big disadvantage against a guy who’s going to give you 21 seasons without the drama.

Brodeur had his situations too especially early on, like leaking the team's internal matters to the press when he didn't get to play or going on strike during the training camp as he demanded more money. In the end he arranged himself with Lamoriello, but as of 1995 when they won their first cup that was still very much in doubt.