Marner's Next Contract

[MagicalRazor]

7.5x8 next off season leafs ain't singing anyone early

 

[Sypher04]

Dubas handed JT a $15,25 mil signing bonus cheque (highest in NHL history) to sign on the dotted line making JT the highest paid player in the NHL this year @$15.9 mil and the 2nd highest AAV at $11 mil behind only McDavid. Pretty hard for anyone to turn that down to come home and not play for your dream team.

So unless you believe Tavares is either the best or 2nd best player in the NHL, then Dubas got his man but showed little to no cost restraint in the process. If Dubas now hands Matthews a similar $11 mil AAV or greater contract that would mean Leafs would have the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players in the entire NHL.

Highest NHL AAV
1) McDavid
2) Matthews
3 Tavares

Now you start talking getting Marner signed & Nylander and if those deals are also >> player comparables based on actual stats performance.

Pretty hard not to see Leafs are heading for Cap hell by making their players the highest paid in the NHL and still trying to ice a competitive Cup winning team, because of the fear a rookie GM is simply overpaying to get his contracts signed. Sure you have good players and that's great but there will be a steep price to pay somewhere and I'm suggesting its team strength and depth that will suffer and Leafs still haven't addressed their greatest need the Dcore.

Leafs are heading down a slippery slop salary cap wise, and will a greenhorn GM be aware of these ramifications is my greatest concern by paying 4 forwards ~ 1/2 your cap total available and then trying to pay the remaining 18 players the other 1/2 balance remaining?.

Lol this is nonsense. Dubas showed no restraint by getting Tavares for 11m when others such as San Jose ordered him 13m? How much he gets paid in the first year is so irrelevant. The Leafs have super deep pockets and can afford to front load a massive bonus like this so why not pay out the player his money early? His 15.9m in year 1 simply isn't his cap hit; the number Dubas actually needs to be concerned with.

 

[blueberrie]

Marner's contract will be hard to peg but I hope this helps lol. He must be getting $$$ already.

Mitch has been lucky, he’s got some really good corporate partners with him now like Intact Insurance, Chevrolet, Red Bull, Sport Chek, Canadian Tire, True Hockey, the list goes on and I don’t want to forget about anybody.

from Q&A: Paul Marner | Leafs Hub

 

[Mess]

Lol this is nonsense. Dubas showed no restraint by getting Tavares for 11m when others such as San Jose ordered him 13m? How much he gets paid in the first year is so irrelevant. The Leafs have super deep pockets and can afford to front load a massive bonus like this so why not pay out the player his money early? His 15.9m in year 1 simply isn't his cap hit; the number Dubas actually needs to be concerned with.

Tavares AAV at $11 mil per in the 2nd highest in the NHL behind only McDavid in 2019-20 and if Matthews also gets a similar or greater contract than Leafs will have the 2nd and 3rd highest AAV contracts in the NHL and then you start factoring in Marner at the $8.5 mil number being tossed around and you have 3 of the top 12 highest AAV players in the entire NHL.

Simply connecting the dots of highest AAV using up the greatest amount of max Salary Cap amounts to leaving less and less for the rest of the team, which has detrimental consequences to team depth, strength and competitiveness. That was my point .. If Dubas overpays the 3 Amigos were heading down this path.

PS: The JT signing bonus being the highest in NHL history as the CBA allows max spending on 1 player caped at 20% of salary cap upper limit and $15.9 mil of $79.5 mil is the max allowable. So Dubas couldn't legally offer a single penny more for next season to recruit JT. That point was directed at another topic about Dubas spending patterns as it makes JT the highest paid player in the NHL this up coming season with the 2nd highest cap hit at $11 mil.. This does not show restraint and if he does similar with our RFA players and overpaying them Leafs will be in Cap hell in short order as described above. The fear is inexperience at the GM level and agents getting the better of Leafs GM in the process by getting their clients to bigger deals than their comparable NHL contracts.

 

[Morbo]

ok so you hate Dubas now as well as Marner, is that it? man are the next 5-8 years really going to suck for you Mess.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

ok so you hate Dubas now as well as Marner, is that it? man are the next 5-8 years really going to suck for you Mess.

I never seen someone so negative. I was reading the "pressure on babcock" thread and he posted 4-5 times how the leafs D is screwed before someone took the bait and replied to one of them lol.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...s-been-on-another-level-this-summer-1.1152527
sounds like he's had a good offseason

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Marner and Willy are getting second contracts. So do they want to go long term security on lockout proof deals like Tavares and leave a little onnthe table for financial security?

Both Mitch and Willy will be playing with two of the best centers in the league. That will help their stats and chances of winning a cup.

I see both as equally important and if Matthews stays healthy this yeat and scores like expected, he will deserve Tavares type money.

6 to 7 million long term on 6 year deals is a significant commitment by the team and likely cap efficient long term.

Third contract for willy and mitch will be likely huge if they remain healthy in the long haul.

$7,000,000 at most for both i believe works best.

Even a 5 year deal works. At present a 7 or 8 year deal looks ill advised presently.

 

[Mess]

ok so you hate Dubas now as well as Marner, is that it? man are the next 5-8 years really going to suck for you Mess.

I don't hate either, and questioning Dubas in terms of handing out bigger contracts due to inexperience is a valid concern. IMO

I would have slept easier if Lou Lam was the one the first signed the 3 Amigos and then turned the team over to Dubas thereafter because I think experience of the GM would have a factor on the salary cap for the Leafs. I fear player agents are going to have a bigger advantage dealing with Kyle than Lou Lam and his 30 years in the GM chair.

I guess we will have to wait and see what $$ # is for each and then debate this further with actual numbers, as well as timing. If Marner is not signed based on 62 & 69 points now and Leafs wait until next year when Marner has played a full season on JT wing and put up > PPG numbers and then sign him it could result in + multiple millions difference in cap hit.

 

[Sypher04]

Tavares AAV at $11 mil per in the 2nd highest in the NHL behind only McDavid in 2019-20 and if Matthews also gets a similar or greater contract than Leafs will have the 2nd and 3rd highest AAV contracts in the NHL and then you start factoring in Marner at the $8.5 mil number being tossed around and you have 3 of the top 12 highest AAV players in the entire NHL.

Simply connecting the dots of highest AAV using up the greatest amount of max Salary Cap amounts to leaving less and less for the rest of the team, which has detrimental consequences to team depth, strength and competitiveness. That was my point .. If Dubas overpays the 3 Amigos were heading down this path.

PS: The JT signing bonus being the highest in NHL history as the CBA allows max spending on 1 player caped at 20% of salary cap upper limit and $15.9 mil of $79.5 mil is the max allowable. So Dubas couldn't legally offer a single penny more for next season to recruit JT. That point was directed at another topic about Dubas spending patterns as it makes JT the highest paid player in the NHL this up coming season with the 2nd highest cap hit at $11 mil.. This does not show restraint and if he does similar with our RFA players and overpaying them Leafs will be in Cap hell in short order as described above. The fear is inexperience at the GM level and agents getting the better of Leafs GM in the process by getting their clients to bigger deals than their comparable NHL contracts.

The Leafs paying Tavares isn't a lack of restraint no matter how much you wish to make it so. The max signing bonus in year one is purely Dubas using our financial might as an organization to pay Tavares as much as possible up front.

The cap is the only number that matters. At all

 

[LeafFever]

Dubas handed JT a $15,25 mil signing bonus cheque (highest in NHL history) to sign on the dotted line making JT the highest paid player in the NHL this year @$15.9 mil and the 2nd highest AAV at $11 mil behind only McDavid. Pretty hard for anyone to turn that down to come home and not play for your dream team.

So unless you believe Tavares is either the best or 2nd best player in the NHL, then Dubas got his man but showed little to no cost restraint in the process. If Dubas now hands Matthews a similar $11 mil AAV or greater contract that would mean Leafs would have the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players in the entire NHL.

Highest NHL AAV
1) McDavid
2) Matthews
3 Tavares

Now you start talking getting Marner signed & Nylander and if those deals are also >> player comparables based on actual stats performance.

Pretty hard not to see Leafs are heading for Cap hell by making their players the highest paid in the NHL and still trying to ice a competitive Cup winning team, because of the fear a rookie GM is simply overpaying to get his contracts signed. Sure you have good players and that's great but there will be a steep price to pay somewhere and I'm suggesting its team strength and depth that will suffer and Leafs still haven't addressed their greatest need the Dcore.

Leafs are heading down a slippery slop salary cap wise, and will a greenhorn GM be aware of these ramifications is my greatest concern by paying 4 forwards ~ 1/2 your cap total available and then trying to pay the remaining 18 players the other 1/2 balance remaining?.

What? He got Tavares for millions less tan other teams offered. Litterally no one thought Tavares would get less than 12 million per in June.
Also, the signing bonus actually keeps the AVG per year down, so it was very wise to do so.

 

[LeafFever]

I don't hate either, and questioning Dubas in terms of handing out bigger contracts due to inexperience is a valid concern. IMO

I would have slept easier if Lou Lam was the one the first signed the 3 Amigos and then turned the team over to Dubas thereafter because I think experience of the GM would have a factor on the salary cap for the Leafs. I fear player agents are going to have a bigger advantage dealing with Kyle than Lou Lam and his 30 years in the GM chair.

I guess we will have to wait and see what $$ # is for each and then debate this further with actual numbers, as well as timing. If Marner is not signed based on 62 & 69 points now and Leafs wait until next year when Marner has played a full season on JT wing and put up > PPG numbers and then sign him it could result in + multiple millions difference in cap hit.

Lou just gave Leo Komorov a raise and a 4 year deal. Dubas just got a franchise #1 C for less than any other team was offering.
I get it, you wanted Hunter, but there is a reason no one wanted Hunter as their GM. I haven't even heard reports of anyone looking to hire him yet.

 

[Mess]

The cap is the only number that matters. At all

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

 

[LeafFever]

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

How much did you expect Tavares to get? Because I cannot recall anyone predicting less tan what he got. You aren't being realistic if you think 11 million per is too much and he could have been had for less. Doug Wilson offered 13 million per.

 

[Morbo]

Mess, Tavares took less money to sign with the Leafs, and there's no chance Lou would have gotten him any cheaper. That is a total red herring on your part.

your attempt to turn the acquisition of an elite centre in his prime into the regrettable bungle of a greenhorn GM is puzzling...not as puzzling as complaining about having too many elite players though.

guess what, this is life as a contender under the cap system. you invest in your core guys and the rest of your lineup is whoever fits. That's what Pittsburgh has done.

 

[LeafFever]

I believe Lou offered Tavares more to stay in Long Island.
And that Leo Komorov contract is hilarious.
Within 1 month of being named GM, Dubas' AHL team won the Calder cup and he signed the biggest UFA in at least 12 years to a contract for millions less than anyone else offered, including all the more experienced GMs.

 

[LeafFever]

Mess, Tavares took less money to sign with the Leafs, and there's no chance Lou would have gotten him any cheaper. That is a total red herring on your part.

your attempt to turn the acquisition of an elite centre in his prime into the regrettable bungle of a greenhorn GM is puzzling...not as puzzling as complaining about having too many elite players though.

guess what, this is life as a contender under the cap system. you invest in your core guys and the rest of your lineup is whoever fits. That's what Pittsburgh has done.

He wanted Hunter and has to stick to that so he'll keep his narrative going about Dubas being incredibly flawed. Same with his Mitch Marner criticism.

Dubas is off to a fantastic start.

 

[diceman934]

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

The only thing the JT contract did was cap Mathews cap hit at the same 11m even if he puts up 100 points this year. He was already going to get over 10 million as Buffalo saw to that.

Nylander will be signed this summer as he needs a contract and I believe he will be signed for less then most on here have projected, leaving Marner to resign. A smart offer would be to give him slightly more than his comparables right after we sign Nylander and Bob is your uncle we will have all under contract and can fill in the balance of our roster after having 8 players signed for at least 4 years moving forward.

Gardiner is the only contract needing to be address and I believe we resign him at a team friendly cap hit.

 

[Sypher04]

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

It's not hard to see why he's second highest. He is the biggest UFA in what, 15 years, more? And the cap just increase 4.5m from last year. More timing/situation than anything. People will sign for more and more going forward

While the signing maybe isn't an example of restraint, it's most definitely not an example of lack of restraint either.

Virtually all accounts had him getting more from other teams. He took less to play here. So I'm really not sure what your issue is tbh.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

I don't understand your argument here. You can't both say that it is great that we acquired JT, and also paint it as Dubas showing inexperience by giving a huge contract to a guy that was expected to sign for more, and turned down a contract that had a cap hit at $2M higher. The two positions are mutually exclusive.

The Tavares contract also won't affect the negotiations of Marner and Nylander, they are not comparables. As for Matthews, he was already expected to sign for $10M as a bottom line, and most likely at around $12M with the cap growth. If there is an effect from the Tavares contract, it's one where we actually set a roof on the Matthews contract as he's now got a perfect comparable on his own team, one that also bought a lot of UFA years.

 

[hotpaws]

The only thing the JT contract did was cap Mathews cap hit at the same 11m even if he puts up 100 points this year. He was already going to get over 10 million as Buffalo saw to that.

Nylander will be signed this summer as he needs a contract and I believe he will be signed for less then most on here have projected, leaving Marner to resign. A smart offer would be to give him slightly more than his comparables right after we sign Nylander and Bob is your uncle we will have all under contract and can fill in the balance of our roster after having 8 players signed for at least 4 years moving forward.

Gardiner is the only contract needing to be address and I believe we resign him at a team friendly cap hit.

why does signing Tavares cap AM cap hit ?

 

[hotpaws]

Lou just gave Leo Komorov a raise and a 4 year deal. Dubas just got a franchise #1 C for less than any other team was offering.

do you put thought into making up crap like this or do just start posting and let the shit flow ?

 

[Liminality]

Fine, and as stated Tavares at $11 mil per is the 2nd highest AAV in the NHL behind only McDavid. Going forward this will have a huge impact of the Leafs salary Cap as well as on ice results.

Its great that Leafs have JT, nobody would wish otherwise, but its not an example of an inexperienced GM showing cost control and restraint when it comes to signing players if the debate is about the potential fear that Matthews. Marner and Nylander contracts might be OVER priced now.. Costly signings effect the cap and the cap effects the teams competitiveness.

I can foresee a situation coming where Leafs will soon have potentially 3 (Matthews, Tavares and Marner ) players all among the top 12 highest AAV players in the league with JT and Auston both top 5 highest, and still trying to ice a Cup competitive team, but be at a huge disadvantage to other teams because so much $$ is invested in so few players and the team forced to be filled out with Marlies to be cap complaint.

The worst thing that could happen in this above situation is that Marner is not signed this summer to ~$7 mil based on current comparables and then Leafs allow Marner to pile up the points playing with JT all year and then signed next summer to a cap deal that will cost the Leafs +$1.5-2 mil more cap and thus less cap space. JT signing will now drive up other players contracts by his impact.

You're complaining about paying some of the most talented players in the league, that's extremely silly.
This was a sign of a bold GM signing one of the best FA's to hit the market since I don't know who. Yet you're still complaining about Dubas' decision?

As for your worst case scenario, Marner wasn't going to sign this summer if we got JT or if we didn't. Why would he when he has an extra year to prove what he's worth?

 

[Mess]

why does signing Tavares cap AM cap hit ?

I believe the opposite is true and JT signing will drive up Leafs internal Cap hits and salaries, both directly by playing with him driving up other player stats, and indirectly by new team salary structures.

I think AM is more likely to come in equal or more likely above JT and set the new highest paid player on the Leafs, and will drive up Marner's contract as well.

 

[White Shadow]

Dubas handed JT a $15,25 mil signing bonus cheque (highest in NHL history) to sign on the dotted line making JT the highest paid player in the NHL this year @$15.9 mil and the 2nd highest AAV at $11 mil behind only McDavid. Pretty hard for anyone to turn that down to come home and not play for your dream team.

So unless you believe Tavares is either the best or 2nd best player in the NHL, then Dubas got his man but showed little to no cost restraint in the process. If Dubas now hands Matthews a similar $11 mil AAV or greater contract that would mean Leafs would have the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players in the entire NHL.

Highest NHL AAV
1) McDavid
2) Matthews
3 Tavares

Now you start talking getting Marner signed & Nylander and if those deals are also >> player comparables based on actual stats performance.

Pretty hard not to see Leafs are heading for Cap hell by making their players the highest paid in the NHL and still trying to ice a competitive Cup winning team, because of the fear a rookie GM is simply overpaying to get his contracts signed. Sure you have good players and that's great but there will be a steep price to pay somewhere and I'm suggesting its team strength and depth that will suffer and Leafs still haven't addressed their greatest need the Dcore.

Leafs are heading down a slippery slop salary cap wise, and will a greenhorn GM be aware of these ramifications is my greatest concern by paying 4 forwards ~ 1/2 your cap total available and then trying to pay the remaining 18 players the other 1/2 balance remaining?.

Seriously dude. What is wrong with you?