Marner's Next Contract

[hotpaws]

I'm a total news junkie, and I can't recall Dubas saying that or anything closely resembling it! Do you perhaps have a link?

he said it during a radio interview the day he was hired or the day after

 

[Sypher04]

he said it during a radio interview the day he was hired or the day after

I listened to his radio interviews. He never said he was essentially tossed aside to manage the marlies and not really involved in Leafs matters for the entire time Lou was here.

Everything I've ever read said that his role was diminished early on, but after about a year he got progressively more involved which sounds about right.

He was assistant GM for a reason

 

[Al14]

I really hope Dubas is able to sign all 3 of our big 3 this summer. Let's not wait on this, get'er done Kyle!

 

[DanM]

Just stop, Leafs are not going to be able to save 2m per player. That is wishful thinking, if Leafs can save 2m in total with the three amigos you should be happy.

I see what you are saying, but it is possible. Look at the Tampa model, Jets signed a few players well under value, or Pasta in Boston.

I am just saying it can happen, that's all. Everyone keeps saying pay for potential breakouts, but Sheif didn't do that, Pasta didn't do that, Kuch didn't do that, Stammer didn't do that, Ehlers didn't do that, and so on.

It seems like everyone on here expects our players to sign for the MOST possible and not a single cent less. Not one thing has pointed to this. Team friendly deals are not the boogyman, and they can help win a lot more later. It depends on the players wants.

 

[hotpaws]

I listened to his radio interviews. He never said he was essentially tossed aside to manage the marlies and not really involved in Leafs matters for the entire time Lou was here.

Everything I've ever read said that his role was diminished early on, but after about a year he got progressively more involved which sounds about right.

He was assistant GM for a reason

he said exactly that he was sent to the Marlies to learn the development side of the game and his influence with the decision making with the Leafs was greatly reduced the second LL was hired

also it doesn't matter since he was promoted and now it's his team to run , funny how i here almost nothing about our new agm's , it's like the position has been reduced to errand boy now that KD has been promoted lol

 

[Sypher04]

he said exactly that he was sent to the Marlies to learn the development side of the game and his influence with the decision making with the Leafs was greatly reduced the second LL was hired

also it doesn't matter since he was promoted and now it's his team to run , funny how i here almost nothing about our new agm's , it's like the position has been reduced to errand boy now that KD has been promoted lol

So it was diminished at the start which I agreed to. Any inference that he wasn't involved after that though is you just adding it in.

And pridham and Gilman are both good executives. I've personally never diminished anything regarding the AGM position since their hiring/promotion.

 

[Willy Stylez]

I see what you are saying, but it is possible.

Its possible to save 2M on each player? When you say that do you mean per year or on the total?

Dont get me wrong, I want them to sign fair deals that benefits both parties and I think these number are reasonable.

Example:
Matthews 8 years 9.5-10.5M AAV
Marner 7 Years 6.5-7.5M
Nylander 7 Years 6.5-7.25M

If Marner/Nylander wants to much sign them to 5-6 years to take down the AAV a bit more if that is so important which I dont think, you trade away the Browns for that instead.

 

[hotpaws]

So it was diminished at the start which I agreed to. Any inference that he wasn't involved after that though is you just adding it in.

And pridham and Gilman are both good executives. I've personally never diminished anything regarding the AGM position since their hiring/promotion.

no it was diminished all 3 years and agm's don't run the team just like how our new agm's aren't in control and have been pretty much instantly forgotten by our board outside of discussions about the cap

 

[Sypher04]

no it was diminished all 3 years and agm's don't run the team just like how our new agm's aren't in control and have been pretty much instantly forgotten by our board outside of discussions about the cap

There's a huge difference between running the team/being in control and being involved. Obviously the AGM isn't running things, but to suggest they are not involved is just ridiculous.

And you have exactly no evidence it was diminished anything beyond the first while after Lou was hired but sure.

 

[Menzinger]

If Lou Lam was still the Leafs GM then JT would still be here because it was Location, Location, Location and playing for his childhood team not GM that drove that outcome. No other team could offer JT his hometown and fulfill a childhood dream so it didn't matter how much money they offered as they couldn't offer what he truly desired..

Despite the hometown discount Dubas still made JT the highest paid player in the NHL (Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps) this up coming season by giving him $15.9 mil (CBA max allowable ) in actually salary and 2nd highest in AAV @ $11 mil (per term).

That is exactly why I'm nervous about Dubas, in hopes he doesn't continue to follow this strategy with the 3 Amigos. Its one thing to toss everything on the table to recruit a prized UFA, but much different situation when you have controllable RFA players (without arbitration rights). With RFAs the team has the leverage and with UFAs the market has the leverage and the player controls the destination.

Toronto hasn’t been a desirable location for big names free agents in 15+ years.

The idea that tavares was a lock to sign with the Leafs - which not a single media personality suggested was the case prior to July 1st - doesn’t seem to hold up to any basic scrutiny.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If Lou Lam was still the Leafs GM then JT would still be here because it was Location, Location, Location and playing for his childhood team not GM that drove that outcome. No other team could offer JT his hometown and fulfill a childhood dream so it didn't matter how much money they offered as they couldn't offer what he truly desired..

Despite the hometown discount Dubas still made JT the highest paid player in the NHL (Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps) this up coming season by giving him $15.9 mil (CBA max allowable ) in actually salary and 2nd highest in AAV @ $11 mil (per term).

That is exactly why I'm nervous about Dubas, in hopes he doesn't continue to follow this strategy with the 3 Amigos. Its one thing to toss everything on the table to recruit a prized UFA, but much different situation when you have controllable RFA players (without arbitration rights). With RFAs the team has the leverage and with UFAs the market has the leverage and the player controls the destination.

Follow what strategy? Giving Tavares that contract wasn't strategy, it was what it would take to acquire a rare talent like him. That's not the case with the three kids, as you should well know.

Oh, and how do you arrive at the conclusion that it was all about location? Toronto was always Toronto, yet there was almost no talk about Tavares coming here before he met with Dubas. I'm not sure why you are jumping on the same narrative as the bitter Islanders fans all of a sudden.

 

[Nylander88]

I voted next season. However, i hooe they sign Marner this off-season. To me, locking up Marner now is our best bet to save money. Matthews can wait a year if need be, to me his contract is simple, hes going to be 8x 10-12per this year or next. Matthews is getting paid and less to gain. Marner could gain huge on Tavares wing

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I said it once I will say it again, all three are basically agreed. The figures are as follows..... Matthews, 12 million, Marner 8.5 million and Nylander 6.5 million. In my opinion, it could ruin the franchise as I think only Marner is a real NHLer. Matthews and Nylander should just be traded.

But lets see how it all turns out, I think Harold Ballard and Clancy are ready to howl over these contracts. I can almost hear them. Get Matthews and Nylander on cheap contracts and trade them, one is a dove and the other one is an injury ready to happen.

Anyone hear of a guy named Josh Donaldson... Well his distant cousin for sure is Auston Matthews. Both are never going to play an entire season ever again.

Remember, you heard this here first.

Matthews.... eats badly and trains worse. I would not hang my hat on this guy, if I was Dubas, but hey, I am not Dubas.

 

[DarkKnight]

Look out baby:

"He's been on another level this summer....probably the most focused I've seen him and driven."

Noble: Marner's training has been on another level this summer

 

[Mess]

Toronto hasn’t been a desirable location for big names free agents in 15+ years.

The idea that tavares was a lock to sign with the Leafs - which not a single media personality suggested was the case prior to July 1st - doesn’t seem to hold up to any basic scrutiny.

Dubas handed JT a $15,25 mil signing bonus cheque (highest in NHL history) to sign on the dotted line making JT the highest paid player in the NHL this year @$15.9 mil and the 2nd highest AAV at $11 mil behind only McDavid. Pretty hard for anyone to turn that down to come home and not play for your dream team.

So unless you believe Tavares is either the best or 2nd best player in the NHL, then Dubas got his man but showed little to no cost restraint in the process. If Dubas now hands Matthews a similar $11 mil AAV or greater contract that would mean Leafs would have the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players in the entire NHL.

Highest NHL AAV
1) McDavid
2) Matthews
3 Tavares

Now you start talking getting Marner signed & Nylander and if those deals are also >> player comparables based on actual stats performance.

Pretty hard not to see Leafs are heading for Cap hell by making their players the highest paid in the NHL and still trying to ice a competitive Cup winning team, because of the fear a rookie GM is simply overpaying to get his contracts signed. Sure you have good players and that's great but there will be a steep price to pay somewhere and I'm suggesting its team strength and depth that will suffer and Leafs still haven't addressed their greatest need the Dcore.

Leafs are heading down a slippery slop salary cap wise, and will a greenhorn GM be aware of these ramifications is my greatest concern by paying 4 forwards ~ 1/2 your cap total available and then trying to pay the remaining 18 players the other 1/2 balance remaining?.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas handed JT a $15,25 mil signing bonus cheque (highest in NHL history) to sign on the dotted line making JT the highest paid player in the NHL this year @$15.9 mil and the 2nd highest AAV at $11 mil behind only McDavid. Pretty hard for anyone to turn that down to come home and not play for your dream team.

So unless you believe Tavares is either the best or 2nd best player in the NHL, then Dubas got his man but showed little to no cost restraint in the process. If Dubas now hands Matthews a similar $11 mil AAV or greater contract that would mean Leafs would have the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players in the entire NHL.

Highest NHL AAV
1) McDavid
2) Matthews
3 Tavares

Now you start talking getting Marner signed & Nylander and if those deals are also >> player comparables based on actual stats performance.

Pretty hard not to see Leafs are heading for Cap hell by making their players the highest paid in the NHL and still trying to ice a competitive Cup winning team, because of the fear a rookie GM is simply overpaying to get his contracts signed. Sure you have good players and that's great but there will be a steep price to pay somewhere and I'm suggesting its team strength and depth that will suffer and Leafs still haven't addressed their greatest need the Dcore.

Leafs are heading down a slippery slop salary cap wise, and will a greenhorn GM be aware of these ramifications is my greatest concern by paying 4 forwards ~ 1/2 your cap total available and then trying to pay the remaining 18 players the other 1/2 balance remaining?.

LOL.

 

[ACC1224]

LOL.

About all you can say to that.

 

[Mess]

If Marner is getting $8.5 mil on the long-term deal and Matthews is getting +$10 mil on similar term deal then Leafs will have 3 of top 15 the highest paid/AAV in the entire NHL.

In comparison Sidney Crosby AAV is $8.7 mil (8th highest) and Leafs in short order could/would have 3 players making more or similar to Sid the Kid. (one of the best players of all time).

In a Salary Cap World this will have steep consequences, and you don't have to be Nostradamus or Einstein to see the future, unless your also predicting 3 X 100 point players to avoid the predictable outcome of the Leafs and Marlies being forced to morphed into 1 NHL team for Cap reasons and remain Cup competitive.

 

[stickty111]

If Marner is getting $8.5 mil on the long-term deal and Matthews is getting +$10 mil on similar term deal then Leafs will have 3 of top 15 the highest paid/AAV in the entire NHL.

In comparison Sidney Crosby AAV is $8.7 mil (8th highest) and Leafs in short order could/would have 3 players making more or similar to Sid the Kid. (one of the best players of all time).

In a Salary Cap World this will have steep consequences, and you don't have to be Nostradamus or Einstein to see the future, unless your also predicting 3 X 100 point players to avoid the predictable outcome of the Leafs and Marlies being forced to morphed into 1 NHL team for Cap reasons and remain Cup competitive.

Lol

 

[therealkoho]

If Marner is getting $8.5 mil on the long-term deal and Matthews is getting +$10 mil on similar term deal then Leafs will have 3 of top 15 the highest paid/AAV in the entire NHL.

In comparison Sidney Crosby AAV is $8.7 mil (8th highest) and Leafs in short order could/would have 3 players making more or similar to Sid the Kid. (one of the best players of all time).

In a Salary Cap World this will have steep consequences, and you don't have to be Nostradamus or Einstein to see the future, unless your also predicting 3 X 100 point players to avoid the predictable outcome of the Leafs and Marlies being forced to morphed into 1 NHL team for Cap reasons and remain Cup competitive.

Crosby's contract has nothing to with today Mess, both you, I and guys playing craps in the alley know this.

by signing Marner to a contract such as that you'll soon be saving 4 or 5m every year after year 2, in my opinion Mitch will be a bigger point producer then Matty, Matty will produce pretty prodigious numbers himself, so I'm not saying Marner going to leave him in the dust

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Marner is getting $8.5 mil on the long-term deal and Matthews is getting +$10 mil on similar term deal then Leafs will have 3 of top 15 the highest paid/AAV in the entire NHL.

In comparison Sidney Crosby AAV is $8.7 mil (8th highest) and Leafs in short order could/would have 3 players making more or similar to Sid the Kid. (one of the best players of all time).

In a Salary Cap World this will have steep consequences, and you don't have to be Nostradamus or Einstein to see the future, unless your also predicting 3 X 100 point players to avoid the predictable outcome of the Leafs and Marlies being forced to morphed into 1 NHL team for Cap reasons and remain Cup competitive.

No, you'd have to be Mess.

 

[Mess]

If you're serious about competing for a Stanley Cup then your opposition cap management plays as big a factor when icing Cup competitive teams than your own spending..

So take TB for example who have Stamkos $8.5 mil + Kucherov $9.5 mil + Hedman $7.88 mil their 3 top players signed long-term (1C + 1RW+ 1D) and making $25.88 mil combined. This group includes 100 pt Kucherov (3rd in NHL scoring) 86 point Stamkos (12th in NHL scoring) and Norris Dman Hedman (#1 in goal scoring and top 5 in point scoring among NHL dman).
vs
Tavares @$11 mil + Matthews (@~ 11 mil resigned)+ Marner (@~ $8.5 mil resigned) = best guesstimate $30.5 mil.

So which team is better positioned Cap wise and Cup wise?

Kucherov + Stamkos + Hedman + $5 mil extra free cap space = ~$31 mil or Tavares + Matthews + Marner for ~$31 mil.

Hard not to see how the opposition and Leafs direct Div and playoff roadblock isn't much better balanced & positioned once you start factoring Leafs pending re-signing situation.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

If you're serious about competing for a Stanley Cup then your opposition cap management plays as big a factor when icing Cup competitive teams than your own spending..

So take TB for example who have Stamkos $8.5 mil + Kucherov $9.5 mil + Hedman $7.88 mil their 3 top players signed long-term (1C + 1RW+ 1D) and making $25.88 mil combined. This group includes 100 pt Kucherov (3rd in NHL scoring) 86 point Stamkos (12th in NHL scoring) and Norris Dman Hedman (#1 in goal scoring and top 5 in point scoring among NHL dman).
vs
Tavares @$11 mil + Matthews (@~ 11 mil resigned)+ Marner (@~ $8.5 mil resigned) = best guesstimate $30.5 mil.

So which team is better positioned Cap wise and Cup wise?

Kucherov + Stamkos + Hedman + $5 mil extra free cap space = ~$31 mil or Tavares + Matthews + Marner for ~$31 mil.

Hard not to see how the opposition and Leafs direct Div and playoff roadblock isn't much better balanced & positioned once you start factoring Leafs pending re-signing situation.

Lets wait and see how much the Leafs trio will make before we start

 

[Mess]

Lets wait and see how much the Leafs trio will make before we start

Agreed, until the ink dries on the contracts its forecasting.

However based on the example provided I'm not sure how Dubas is going to manage to cut Matthews+Marners next contracts by ~$5 mil combined (off current projected #'s) to attempt to match up on equal cap term spending of TB big 3 to Leafs big 3. That would mean instead of Matthews and Marner coming in at about $20 mil combined, it would need to be $15 mil combined.

Heck Dubas might be lucky getting Marner and Nylander locked up long-term for $15 mil combined not Matthews and Marner. IMO.

 

[DoobieDubas]

Not worried, the torona kid is worth the money. Will retire as a leaf and then work for the leafs.