Marner's Next Contract

[Menzinger]

Ideally they’ll get him at around 7ish long term.

If he hits PPG this season and his agent wants to play hardball next summer I can see him looking for a Draisaitl level 8.5ish per

 

[Notsince67]

Ideally they’ll get him at around 7ish long term.

If he hits PPG this season and his agent wants to play hardball next summer I can see him looking for a Draisaitl level 8.5ish per

A pasta adjusted contract would get him over 7MM for 6 years.
7 for 8 years will not incent him to sign early

 

[diceman934]

Where did I say take a $3M haircut ? If he does well, you sign him. If you can't because he asks for more than you are willing to pay, you move him. Probably what the Jets do with Trouba but I think Mitch will give a hometown discount.

Difference Trouba wants out of the Peg

 

[therealkoho]

I still want them to trot out the three kids at the same press conference in September sometime. Get Marner signed before he gets 80 points this season.

with JT behind them with the C on his #91

 

[Notsince67]

If Marner and Matty try to blow the bank up on these contracts, and it hurts the team, they will be crapped on buy our media and fans for being selfish, especially if those contracts costs us other players and assets.

Therefore I can't possibly see them doing this. They should come in at good value and offer the organization flexibility for other moves.

The pain needs to be shared evenly including Nylander.

 

[DanM]

So the problem with this is risk. Marner get 7MM all day long with the cap increase. His performance after January was something like 1.13 points per game. He also killed it in the POS. If Marner breaks the 90 point mark and approaches 100, he has a real claim to 10MM. With Tavares on his line, that is possible.
He could also get hurt so there is risk there for him too.
He will not take a 3MM/yr discount from his perceived value. Can anyone see Nylander taking a 1MM discount? I don't. A compromise is a 8.5MM early signing. If that is an overpay, then the leafs better plan for the possibility of Core roster changes

Well if they come in that high, and it costs core players, you will have a pissed off JT.

He was sold on the whole core going forward...period.

 

[DanM]

The pain needs to be shared evenly including Nylander.

Well if they are going to all cause pain, and we sell off core pieces because of them, we will have maybe 1-3 year window before cap hell and moving parts. JT will also not be happy, and Dubas will look like a liar.

 

[DanM]

They deserve to get what they are worth. **** the media.

Also f*** the team, and a shorter window for contention, and a unhappy JT (who was sold on the core and additions going forward) and Dubas will look like a liar, and we can watch Tampa and Boston win cups.

Do we want this? or for them to come in a little reasonable, see the consistent cup chances, because they didn't blow up the bank, and we were still able to add more on the backend.

The ball is in their court.

 

[DanM]

Scheifele hadn’t really broken out when he signed his contract. If he would have had another year on his contract and preformed like he did he would have signed for a lot more. Jets lucked out he didn’t

Not every players NEEDS to break the bank right away, and contracts can be structured creatively, just a few players below who WANT to win first and foremost. Of course they don't all play on cup contenders, but they were also not asking for 8-9-10 million before proving jack shit.

Stammer
Kuch
JT
Hedman
Pasta
Sid ( yes different contract structure, and cap hit % at that time)
Malkin (same as Sid)
Johnny Hockey
Mackinnon (6.3 MILLION!)
Seth Jones
Trochek

All these guys want to win.

Chicago players wanted money, yes won cups, but are no longer elite....

I want the Pitts and Tampa model.

 

[Willy Stylez]

Also **** the team, and a shorter window for contention, and a unhappy JT (who was sold on the core and additions going forward) and Dubas will look like a liar, and we can watch Tampa and Boston win cups.

Do we want this? or for them to come in a little reasonable, see the consistent cup chances, because they didn't blow up the bank, and we were still able to add more on the backend.

The ball is in their court.

What are you jibbiring about. You dont think that is possible giving them what they are worth and being in contention for a long time? Do you really think that 1 or 2M in total that you can save is going to make the window shorter?

 

[hotpaws]

Also **** the team, and a shorter window for contention, and a unhappy JT (who was sold on the core and additions going forward) and Dubas will look like a liar, and we can watch Tampa and Boston win cups.

Do we want this? or for them to come in a little reasonable, see the consistent cup chances, because they didn't blow up the bank, and we were still able to add more on the backend.

The ball is in their court.

What do you mean by saying they should take reasonable contracts ?

JT at 11m per isn't on sub market deal so why should the kids take less than there comparables , it'd be nice if they did but I won't be holding it against them if they didn't .

Funny how all of sudden we went from easily being able to afford JT and our young core to cap hell if they don't take discounts .

 

[Eternal Leaf]

What do you mean by saying they should take reasonable contracts ?

JT at 11m per isn't on sub market deal so why should the kids take less than there comparables , it'd be nice if they did but I won't be holding it against them if they didn't .

Funny how all of sudden we went from easily being able to afford JT and our young core to cap hell if they don't take discounts .

I believe JT took a discount. Was offered 7 x 13M.

But yes, none of the trio should be taking less than their comparables.

 

[hotpaws]

I believe JT took a discount. Was offered 7 x 13M.

But yes, none of the trio should be taking less than their comparables.

Rumour was SJ offered that , I never heard anyone from the team confirm .

Also while he may or may not have been offered more the fact is he didn't sign a sub market deal when looking at comparables players . Stamkos for example was not only rumoured to have been offered more but also took less than comparable players when he signed for 8.5m.

 

[ToneDog]

A core of Tavares, Matthews and Marner is greater than that of Matthews, Marner and Nylander and instantly makes us a serious contender. Pretty sure Leafs did their cap homework prior to signing JT and know how this will play out. IMO if Willie cannot fit under the cap, he will be traded. He is the odd man out when it comes to the overall core of this team going forward.

 

[BlueForever75]

Look at what players are making as salaries:

Ehlers - 6 million per
Barkov - 5.9 million per
Forsberg - 6 million per
Hall - 6 million per
Pasternak - 6.6 million per
Oshie - 5.75 million per
Backstrom - 6.7 million per
Monohan - 6.3 million per
Gaudreau - 6.7 million per
Scheifele - 6.1 million per
MacKinnion - 6.3 million per
Kessel - 6.8 million per

And there are more the list can go on. Players that are making anywhere from 5.5-7 million a season that are proven players for longer then both Marner and Nylander. That being said, I understand that the cap has gone up. But arbitration should work with what others are being paid. This will prevent teams from getting into trouble and being able to keep competitive. Paying players above what others are making is bad business.

The Leafs should sign Nylander to a 5 year deal where he becomes a free agent one more time prior to his 30's. Like the majority of these players did in their first contract after their entry level one. If not and he wants long term like 7-8 years, then he needs to be a little more realistic like all the other players were.

He either wants to be part of the solution, or he can be moved to be the solution someplace else. But he definitely is going to the only solution in Toronto and he needs to come to grips with that.

Same goes with Marner.

 

[Notsince67]

It is an interesting conversation for sure. These guys have pride and deserve to make close to what they are worth. If I were to guess, I would say the numbers are like AM:10-11(8 years), MM:8-8.5 (7-8years) and WN:7-7.5 (7-8 years years). If the leafs can't work with 26MM, there will be issues. MM will need to be brought onside early because he is the hot point from a risk perspective. Not because he is greedy. Nylander refused to negotiate an extension last year during the season. Why would Mitch give that up if he felt that the number is millions from the upper range of his potential? Because the risk belongs to the maple leafs if they are a pay for performance over a pay for hype team. These boys worked hard to get where they are in their career. Pay them or make another team happy with the steal of a great player.
Kind of puts a damper on a dman unless they move players

 

[Morbo]

Nylander isn't being traded.

It looks like the defenceman market remains deadlocked, here in year 3 of us looking for an impact blueliner. No deal appears to be in the works. Doughty, OEL, Carlson all off the market and Karlsson being traded to the Leafs basically a fantasy. Entering the dead part of the offseason, the chances we're going to bring in anybody back there who really moves the needle aren't great.

I take Dubas at his word...he can and will keep the 3 kids, and he's more bullish on the defence than most. The latter, no doubt, because he has no choice but to hope for internal improvement(Dermott progresses, Zaitsev settles in at closer to his year 1 performance, Polak and his grenade-chucking ways gone, etc) with trades being so difficult to make.

We're going to have to try and outscore an ordinary defence/G group. There will certainly be many nights in the regular season that we can do that. Perhaps something shakes loose at the trade deadline, we should have plenty of cap space to take on short-term acquisitions for a playoff run.

 

[Notsince67]

Look at what players are making as salaries:

Ehlers - 6 million per
Barkov - 5.9 million per
Forsberg - 6 million per
Hall - 6 million per
Pasternak - 6.6 million per
Oshie - 5.75 million per
Backstrom - 6.7 million per
Monohan - 6.3 million per
Gaudreau - 6.7 million per
Scheifele - 6.1 million per
MacKinnion - 6.3 million per
Kessel - 6.8 million per

And there are more the list can go on. Players that are making anywhere from 5.5-7 million a season that are proven players for longer then both Marner and Nylander. That being said, I understand that the cap has gone up. But arbitration should work with what others are being paid. This will prevent teams from getting into trouble and being able to keep competitive. Paying players above what others are making is bad business.

The Leafs should sign Nylander to a 5 year deal where he becomes a free agent one more time prior to his 30's. Like the majority of these players did in their first contract after their entry level one. If not and he wants long term like 7-8 years, then he needs to be a little more realistic like all the other players were.

He either wants to be part of the solution, or he can be moved to be the solution someplace else. But he definitely is going to the only solution in Toronto and he needs to come to grips with that.

Same goes with Marner.

You can't get guys to sign an 8 year deal by significantly low balling their worth. How many of those guys did an 8 year deal?

 

[BlueForever75]

The way I see it is if you have a player like Kucherov or Stamkos that have bided their time in NHL for lower salaries, and then re-up below to what they are worth with another team so that they can remain with the teams that drafted them and be part of the solution. There is no reason players like Marner and Nylander cannot do the same. Why are they owed more then players like Stamkos and Kucherov???

They should take the home discount, want to be part of the solution long term. Its not everyday any player in the NHL can say they have Tavares and Matthews as their centers. Makes playing the game that much more enjoyable. They could always get traded to teams like Carolina, or Florida, or NYI to get paid what they want, and never sniff a Stanley Cup ever in their careers. Really the choice is theirs.

 

[BlueForever75]

You can't get guys to sign an 8 year deal by significantly low balling their worth. How many of those guys did an 8 year deal?

Why do we need to sign them to 8 year deals? Most of those players signed 5-7 year deals. Just as big players like Marner and Nylander. And mostly all of them signed them after their entry level contracts as Marner and Nylander will be. How is it low balling. Tell me which players on that list are significantly worse then our players? I will help you, none of them. I will argue some are better then them.

 

[Notsince67]

Why do we need to sign them to 8 year deals? Most of those players signed 5-7 year deals.

This is true. I am ok with 5-6 year deals though many are not. I needed a baseline because the variables get too ridiculous. Term at this age costs. Buying 2 more years is expensive

Just as big players like Marner and Nylander. And mostly all of them signed them after their entry level contracts as Marner and Nylander will be. How is it low balling. Tell me which players on that list are significantly worse then our players? I will help you, none of them. I will argue some are better then them.

Nylander is finished with his entry level deal. He can be compared. My numbers were 7-8 years...not 5 and six.
Marner is not finished his ELC. I already expressed earlier the risk of waiting another year and why Dubas might want to buy some of that risk down.

 

[Sypher04]

I was listening to the Leafs Report podcast a while back and Mirtle was saying that he didn't think Marner's contract will be signed this offseason and that he would most likely be betting on himself. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks because imo he's the trickiest to gauge. Especially if we go by early reports about how he was looking for Eichel money. Just wanted to see when everyone thinks he'll sign and what his potential cap hit will be.

There were no "reports" of him wanting Eichel money. There was a lot of baseless speculation

 

[Sypher04]

Scheifele hadn’t really broken out when he signed his contract. If he would have had another year on his contract and preformed like he did he would have signed for a lot more. Jets lucked out he didn’t

Clearly displaying why you don't sign bridge deals.

 

[Mess]

There were no "reports" of him wanting Eichel money. There was a lot of baseless speculation

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-tavares-focused-on-negotiations-with-islanders~1417629

Towards the end of the segment Darren Dreger says Marner and Leafs could be a battle and that Marner's representatives have the stats to back them up in asking for Jack Eichel money.

There was a whole main board discussion on this recently.

Link: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/marner-negotiations-could-be-a-battle.2503207/​

 

[BlueForever75]

Clearly displaying why you don't sign bridge deals.

And clearly what the Leafs should do with both Marner and Nylander because they too haven't fully broken out yet and have put up points like Schiefle did prior to his contract extension. This is why I don't think Nylander should get a penny more then what Schiefle gets. He's a definite comparable.