Marner's Next Contract

[ToneDog]

I cant see nylander coming in under 10

Imagine an 8th consecutive first round loss with 4 forwards making 8 digits each. No chance unless it is with another team.

 

[andora]

Imagine an 8th consecutive first round loss with 4 forwards making 8 digits each. No chance unless it is with another team.

Honestly i wouldnt have imagined we would be where we are now.. so.. there is that i guess

 

[Gabriel426]

I cant see nylander coming in under 10

He hasn't hit 100pts yet. or even 90pts.

 

[Mess]

He hasn't hit 100pts yet. or even 90pts.

John Tavares never hit 90 points and Leafs gave him $11 mil on his last deal.

JT was coming off a 37 goal 47 assist 84 point season while Nylander currently has 35 goals and 79 points.

If Nylander produces like his teammates why do people think he will accept millions less per season?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

There was pressure by some of the owners in the last meeting. The sticking point is the paydown date of the debt.

ok well that cap rising anything over 1M will make me happy.

 

[mclaren55]

John Tavares never hit 90 points and Leafs gave him $11 mil on his last deal.

View attachment 673450

JT was coming off a 37 goal 47 assist 84 point season while Nylander currently has 35 goals and 79 points.

View attachment 673453

If Nylander produces like his teammates why do people think he will accept millions less per season?

He isn’t a centre, and he is no where near as good as Mitch. Maybe that’s why he will accept less?

 

[andora]

He isn’t a centre, and he is no where near as good as Mitch. Maybe that’s why he will accept less?

Hes outproducing marner and matthews points per 60.. which i believe is the gold standard

10th in the league

 

[Gabriel426]

John Tavares never hit 90 points and Leafs gave him $11 mil on his last deal.

View attachment 673450

JT was coming off a 37 goal 47 assist 84 point season while Nylander currently has 35 goals and 79 points.

View attachment 673453

If Nylander produces like his teammates why do people think he will accept millions less per season?

First of all, JT is a C.
Secondly, did anyone offered Johnny Hockey 11mil last summer?
Matt Tkachuk got 9.5mil last summer.

Not saying there won't be desperate GM trying to sign a big ticket UFA like Willie and will overpay, but he is not a 10mil plus players yet compare to players who had better stats than him were signed less than 10 months ago.

 

[mclaren55]

Hes outproducing marner and matthews points per 60.. which i believe is the gold standard

10th in the league

Does he also kill penalties/used in all situations like Mitch?

There is more to the game then points.

 

[andora]

Does he also kill penalties/used in all situations like Mitch?

There is more to the game then points.

My post was sort of a tongue in cheek based on past stuff

Oh i know.. way more to the game

But i still dont think he gets under 10. Hes probably still top 15 in points per 60 this year even strength, he has had a stellar season

 

[ITM]

Why should it be harmful? Meritocracies have benefited Western civilization immensely, why not hockey? It is only when competence hierarchies exist that things move efficiently. People have a choice to sign a contract or not sign a contract. Galchenyuk for example decided not to sign. I'm pretty happy that some form of wealth sharing didnt strap him to this team because he was overpaid.

Why should it be harmful? Perhaps the better question is: Has it been harmful? From there -- charity withstanding the presumption that there isn't some underlying Marxist subtext -- we can quote member after member in which it's as clear as anything can be in Leafs Nation, that had our best players taken appropriately developmental sums, we would have had more money to support the end goal of icing the best deepest team to compete for the Cup.

I'm not suggesting wealth sharing so much as creative wealth management in which the Tampa Bay spring of accessing LTIR dollars is a constant, the whole NHL season long for Toronto: Bonuses up front, backroom deals, I don't know nor care past the scope of implementable possibility...But I'll say this:

What a sin it will be if we mess this period of asset management up.

 

[DarkKnight]

Up until this year I thought Matthews was the Leafs best player with Marner second. Now I think they have switched with Marner being the best two way player in the game. He keeps this up and his next contract will be huge and well deserved.

It’s been an interesting dance this year, with pretty much universal agreement he’s the “engine” of the team. To me, there is no other way to translate that fact to most important, best player…if your driving the team, how can you not be best.

 

[Sypher04]

Lol nearly 40% of the vote has Marner predicted to sign before he’s eligible

 

[Sypher04]

It’s been an interesting dance this year, with pretty much universal agreement he’s the “engine” of the team. To me, there is no other way to translate that fact to most important, best player…if your driving the team, how can you not be best.

I don’t think there’s any real question this year that Mitch has been our best and our driver. Prior to this year it’s debatable and especially last 2 if pushed I’d give Matthews the edge, but the thing a lot of people miss is that’s not meant as a negative perspective on Marner at all. It’s actually an amazing thing for us. Having two guys at this level is what drives us year after year to be one of the very best teams.

I think it’d be truly great if Matthews and Marner agreed to take matching 8 year deals. Obviously because Marner is a year later, it doesn’t exactly work, but could match on %

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think there’s any real question this year that Mitch has been our best and our driver. Prior to this year it’s debatable and especially last 2 if pushed I’d give Matthews the edge, but the thing a lot of people miss is that’s not meant as a negative perspective on Marner at all. It’s actually an amazing thing for us. Having two guys at this level is what drives us year after year to be one of the very best teams.

I think it’d be truly great if Matthews and Marner agreed to take matching 8 year deals. Obviously because Marner is a year later, it doesn’t exactly work, but could match on %

They're both great players. Mitch has been the best this season but I haven't forgotten how Matthews was the best player in the world when he was healthy last season. As good as Marner is, I'd be surprised if he ever won the Hart and/or the Ted Lindsay awards but if Matthews gets back to 100% healthy, I could see him doing it again so based on that, you could say Matthews is the best player.

Then again, Marner has been incredibly (and surprisingly) durable, can't say the same for Matthews. Is Marner more likely to be healthy going forward based on that? I have no idea myself but still, a powerhouse Hart/Lindsay #1 winning centre, hard to take Marner over that.

Whatever, pleased as punch that we have them both for at least one more playoff run, hopefully they're both with the Leafs for many years to come and we don't sign them to contracts for some stupid cap hits that make me want to puke.

 

[Antropovsky]

Does he also kill penalties/used in all situations like Mitch?

There is more to the game then points.

He's outproduced Marner in the last two playoffs.

Nylander has 8 goals and 15 points in the last 14 playoff games.

Marner has 2 goals and 12 points in last 14 playoff games.

Marner also was on for much of the goals against in the elimination games vs Montreal and Tampa. I don't recall Nylander having any glaring giveaway or mistake that led to important goals against. Marner had mistakes that essentially led to 3 of the 4 losses in elimination games vs Montreal and Tampa.

The thing is at this point both players have warts that should keep them from being paid top dollars.

 

[Menzinger]

You'll likely see something similar to what happened with the RFA deals where Marner ends up with slightly less aav (500k-1mil) and more team friendly term if Matthews ends up going for a shorter 3-4 year extension. Though both still probably sign longer term deals.

That would be unimaginable, those 3 on the same team.

IMO, McDavid stays in Edmonton.

If McDavjd hits free agency I doubt anyone in the Leafs would be safe - Matthews and Marner included. The board would probably mandate the GM clear space.

 

[notdoneyet]

You'll likely see something similar to what happened with the RFA deals where Marner ends up with slightly less aav (500k-1mil) and more team friendly term if Matthews ends up going for a shorter 3-4 year extension. Though both still probably sign longer term deals.




If McDavjd hits free agency I doubt anyone in the Leafs would be safe - Matthews and Marner included. The board would probably mandate the GM clear space.

Id rather have marner or matthews

Mcdavid plays in the west where its so bad you only
Have to be a mediocre team to make the playoffs. In the east mcdavid and draisitel would actually have to play defense.

Think about a team who has the top two scorers every year and are still a wild card team.

If both those players gave up 30 points to actually learn to play defensive hockey maybe their team could be cup favourites.

 

[Menzinger]

My post was sort of a tongue in cheek based on past stuff

Oh i know.. way more to the game

But i still dont think he gets under 10. Hes probably still top 15 in points per 60 this year even strength, he has had a stellar season

The aav may be close to around 10 depending on how the cap is looking, but imo most of his direct winger comparisons have him getting closer to around 10-11% of the cap on a long term extension (recently for example Fiala/Forsberg)

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

They'll most likely Not go for their worth since they got their money, like how mackinnon went for his worth and literally is the highest paid player in the game and no one crucified him for it

MacKinnon was coming off a sweet heart deal which he out performed and just won the Stanley Cup, his new contract now is his first "get the bag" contract of his career and it's at 12.6m.

Matthews and Marner already got their "get the bag" contracts before they earned anything. Not to say they haven't earned that money, they definitely have, but I'd argue in doing so has left us scraping by to fill the rest of the roster penny pinching and we've had no playoff success.

If they're serious about wanting to actually win, they should be spreading a little bit more of that pie with the rest of the team since they already got their big contracts early.

If they take less and Tavares next contract will definitely be lower, we can potentially add another star or 2.

But it's up to them and their agents.


Edit: I'll also add that I feel the only player on the Leafs now that should be getting their big contract is Nylander, he outperformed his old contract and has been getting better for the type of player he is. I don't see how we can make it work if Nylander is getting paid while the other 2 still want to go for another big raise.

 

[andora]

The aav may be close to around 10 depending on how the cap is looking, but imo most of his direct winger comparisons have him getting closer to around 10-11% of the cap on a long term extension (recently for example Fiala/Forsberg)

I should add context to my thoughts

Im not so sure willie signs this off season. After last year.. now this year he might wait until the season starts or halfway through if he is producing equal to or better to maximize

If he cuts off that chance and signs this offseason he could flip that leverage and ask for more

 

[Buds17]

John Tavares never hit 90 points and Leafs gave him $11 mil on his last deal.

View attachment 673450

JT was coming off a 37 goal 47 assist 84 point season while Nylander currently has 35 goals and 79 points.

View attachment 673453

If Nylander produces like his teammates why do people think he will accept millions less per season?

The Leafs will at least have the opportunity to offer Nylander an eight year contract, whereas such an option did not exist when negotiating with Tavares. Not to suggest that an extra season will make a world of difference come negotiation time, but...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hes outproducing marner and matthews points per 60.. which i believe is the gold standard

10th in the league

Indeed. It may sound ridiculous now but I remember the Marner is god crowd justifying his contract with P/60.

 

[thewave]

Why should it be harmful? Perhaps the better question is: Has it been harmful? From there -- charity withstanding the presumption that there isn't some underlying Marxist subtext -- we can quote member after member in which it's as clear as anything can be in Leafs Nation, that had our best players taken appropriately developmental sums, we would have had more money to support the end goal of icing the best deepest team to compete for the Cup.

I'm not suggesting wealth sharing so much as creative wealth management in which the Tampa Bay spring of accessing LTIR dollars is a constant, the whole NHL season long for Toronto: Bonuses up front, backroom deals, I don't know nor care past the scope of implementable possibility...But I'll say this:

What a sin it will be if we mess this period of asset management up.

They already messed up the asset management. When you have a talent pool like we have had and don't get past the first round, well, that's an indictment right there. There really isn't much hope either with the lack of a true home grown #1 Tender in the system. Two teams in twenty or more years have won without a home grown tender, just two. If you were an officer of a corporation and were aware of such a statistic and didn't address the issue, what would happen? How would you look to your peers?

Shanahan - Dubas - Keefe
-A tire fire
-Off the rails
-Gone sideways
-Shot their bolt
-Blew their brains out
-In a train wreck

That's the reality. Lets see what stars we can retain and piece together come the next contracts. Tampa and then Boston doesn't look good alone, if we can beat Tampa that is.

 

[thewave]

Indeed. It may sound ridiculous now but I remember the Marner is god crowd justifying his contract with P/60.

Apparently it's only applicable on a case by case basis.