Marner's Next Contract

[ShaneFalco]

I think the Leafs are going to re-up Marner & Willie. I can see them moving Matthews. They cannot continue the 3 headed monster with 3 (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) all in the 13 to 15 million range on new deals. Something has to give or be restructured. Matthew would get the biggest return, especially to a struggling USA market.

I could be totally out to lunch and oftem am, but I see AM wanting the California "spotlight"

I realize that but 32m split between the 3 front loaded is reasonable. A 7th straight round 1 is proof enough for me the three can't get it done without a better supporting cast.

I was there 2 years ago But I also think future legend Keefe isn't helping matters in the playoffs, nor his decisions leading up to them

 

[ToneDog]

I could be totally out to lunch and oftem am, but I see AM wanting the California "spotlight"


I was there 2 years ago But I also think future legend Keefe isn't helping matters in the playoffs, nor his decisions leading up to them

Get a bidding war between LA and Anaheim.

 

[DueDiligence]

Up until this year I thought Matthews was the Leafs best player with Marner second. Now I think they have switched with Marner being the best two way player in the game. He keeps this up and his next contract will be huge and well deserved.

 

[ToneDog]

Up until this year I thought Matthews was the Leafs best player with Marner second. Now I think they have switched with Marner being the best two way player in the game. He keeps this up and his next contract will be huge and well deserved.

What makes him worth millions more than Tkachuk and Petterson and closer to McDavid and MacKinnon?? Why isn't the Pasta deal enough ?? It's not like he has outperformed his last contract like Kutch, Pasta, MacK and Draisaitl have.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Up until this year I thought Matthews was the Leafs best player with Marner second. Now I think they have switched with Marner being the best two way player in the game. He keeps this up and his next contract will be huge and well deserved.

He has to perform in the playoffs. I can't believe some are willing to basically give him a blank cheque when his playoff performance has been totally lacking. His game may not translate.

 

[ULF_55]

He has to perform in the playoffs. I can't believe some are willing to basically give him a blank cheque when his playoff performance has been totally lacking. His game may not translate.

Based on compensation Matthews and marner have under performed, or Nylander has overperformed in the post season.

If the team fails first round again perhaps there is no re-signing this year?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think the Leafs are going to re-up Marner & Willie. I can see them moving Matthews. They cannot continue the 3 headed monster with 3 (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) all in the 13 to 15 million range on new deals. Something has to give or be restructured. Matthew would get the biggest return, especially to a struggling USA market.

Nylander won't get 13 and I'm pretty sure we'll keep Matthews at pretty much any cost.

What makes him worth millions more than Tkachuk and Petterson and closer to McDavid and MacKinnon?? Why isn't the Pasta deal enough ?? It's not like he has outperformed his last contract like Kutch, Pasta, MacK and Draisaitl have.

Good question!

He has to perform in the playoffs. I can't believe some are willing to basically give him a blank cheque when his playoff performance has been totally lacking. His game may not translate.

I think his game will translate just fine and it's not like he's never played well in the playoffs before. That said, it's true that there were a few years there where his production dropped in the playoffs, it's already been pointed out that he has NOT outperformed his current contract like a number of his comparables have so yeah, why give him a blank cheque?

 

[ULF_55]

Down the stretch next year.

McMann-Lafferty-marner

 

[Notsince67]

Surely you troll.


Unless cap rises significantly, too bad. We cannot replay the last 4 years another 8.

It wouldnt be out of the question
Kane's last contract was at 15.2% of the cap.
Add 4MM to the current cap and you get $13.1MM. Marner has surpassed Kane's performance leading up to that contract by quite a bit already.

 

[ToneDog]

It wouldnt be out of the question
Kane's last contract was at 15.2% of the cap.
Add 4MM to the current cap and you get $13.1MM. Marner has surpassed Kane's performance leading up to that contract by quite a bit already.

Sure, add that JT comes off the book the same time Marner's new contract kicks in, and it is possible. He also has a year to prove he is worth such a high percentage of the cap. I am not against paying stars, it is just how many can you pay before you cannot surround them with a good enough supporting cast ?? Currently Tavares @ 11m makes it difficult.

 

[LeafGrief]

It wouldnt be out of the question
Kane's last contract was at 15.2% of the cap.
Add 4MM to the current cap and you get $13.1MM. Marner has surpassed Kane's performance leading up to that contract by quite a bit already.

It's not out of the question of what he might ask for, but it's certainly out of the question for what this team is interested in. Six years without a single series win and we're going to give our guys big raises? Nah. The big 4 experiment has run its course, it was a failure. Somewhere along the rebuild line we decided that maximizing elite talent was the single biggest priority in teambuilding, and now the results are in and that hypothesis has been debunked. If Marner wants 13 or Nylander wants 10, or Matthews wants 15, that means we're shipping at least one of them out. We couldn't afford 40m for 4 guys, much less 35m for 3. Bedtime stories about the cap going up don't help either.

 

[Notsince67]

Sure, add that JT comes off the book the same time Marner's new contract kicks in, and it is possible. He also has a year to prove he is worth such a high percentage of the cap. I am not against paying stars, it is just how many can you pay before you cannot surround them with a good enough supporting cast ?? Currently Tavares @ 11m makes it difficult.

Both Marner and JT's contract expire at the same time helps. I have no clue what Marners motivation would be. I would personally go for the money but I am not altruistic

 

[Notsince67]

It's not out of the question of what he might ask for, but it's certainly out of the question for what this team is interested in. Six years without a single series win and we're going to give our guys big raises? Nah. The big 4 experiment has run its course, it was a failure. Somewhere along the rebuild line we decided that maximizing elite talent was the single biggest priority in teambuilding, and now the results are in and that hypothesis has been debunked. If Marner wants 13 or Nylander wants 10, or Matthews wants 15, that means we're shipping at least one of them out. We couldn't afford 40m for 4 guys, much less 35m for 3. Bedtime stories about the cap going up don't help either.

We are 2 cups away from any of the big 3 contract expirations. Not sure how you can make a statement without caveats

 

[ToneDog]

Both Marner and JT's contract expire at the same time

Exactly, cap goes up $4m, Tavares resigns for $5m or leaves and you have $10-$15m to play with. We can easily make the cap work but these guys have to have some playoff success because teams behind us are slowly catching up.

 

[Notsince67]

Exactly, cap goes up $4m, Tavares resigns for $5m or leaves and you have $10-$15m to play with. We can easily make the cap work but these guys have to have some playoff success because teams behind us are slowly catching up.

In fairness, last year was a problem with the depth players. I didnt think that the top lines could do much more to stay afloat when there was a gaping hole in the stern.

 

[ITM]

Well, I think our guys need to get creative, because another round of this angst filled contract game of Tetris is going to crater the club.

Call it creative financing, call it taking a hometown discount, lateral move, whatever, but MLSE and Matthews and Marner and Nylander need to evaluate the club's purpose while being abstractly remunerated in the process.

Maybe it ends up being a modification of the big four's (Big five with ROR needing a new contract?) numbers, but...I can't help but think that even if Dubas can rinse and repeat, it has to be harmful to the club's chemistry...doesn't it?

 

[Jozay]

Probably 13 mill a year

 

[Notsince67]

Well, I think our guys need to get creative, because another round of this angst filled contract game of Tetris is going to crater the club.

Call it creative financing, call it taking a hometown discount, lateral move, whatever, but MLSE and Matthews and Marner and Nylander need to evaluate the club's purpose while being abstractly remunerated in the process.

Maybe it ends up being a modification of the big four's (Big five with ROR needing a new contract?) numbers, but...I can't help but think that even if Dubas can rinse and repeat, it has to be harmful to the club's chemistry...doesn't it?

Why should it be harmful? Meritocracies have benefited Western civilization immensely, why not hockey? It is only when competence hierarchies exist that things move efficiently. People have a choice to sign a contract or not sign a contract. Galchenyuk for example decided not to sign. I'm pretty happy that some form of wealth sharing didnt strap him to this team because he was overpaid.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It wouldnt be out of the question
Kane's last contract was at 15.2% of the cap.
Add 4MM to the current cap and you get $13.1MM. Marner has surpassed Kane's performance leading up to that contract by quite a bit already.

Before Kane signed his last contract, he had already had a ton of playoff success. He was a huge part of 3 cup wins, led the team in playoff scoring 2 of those years (one point behind the leading scorer the other year) and won the Conn Smythe trophy.

Ya, Marner's passed that by "quite a bit" already, give him a blank cheque.

 

[Pi]

Before Kane signed his last contract, he had already had a ton of playoff success. He was a huge part of 3 cup wins, led the team in playoff scoring 2 of those years (one point behind the leading scorer the other year) and won the Conn Smythe trophy.

Ya, Marner's passed that by "quite a bit" already, give him a blank cheque.

Playoff stats are absolutely not part of negotiations, if that were the case Eichel wouldn't get 10M. Guys like MacKinnon would be making max money.

Mike Trout is the best player in baseball. He's played 3 games in the playoffs and stunk in them.

Not everyone makes the playoffs but has the capability to play 82 regular season games.

 

[IPS]

We're supposed to give the sun and the moon to the guys who haven't stepped up at all in the playoffs?

Marner deserves nowhere near what Kane got on his 2nd contract - Kane went out and won cups for Chicago, Marner can't even get past the 1st round.

Playoff stats are absolutely not part of negotiations

You think Kane's playoff resume had nothing to do with him getting the payday he did on his 3rd contract?

Keep dreaming buddy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Playoff stats are absolutely not part of negotiations, if that were the case Eichel wouldn't get 10M. Guys like MacKinnon would be making max money.

Mike Trout is the best player in baseball. He's played 3 games in the playoffs and stunk in them.

Not everyone makes the playoffs but has the capability to play 82 regular season games.

Yes and no. Yes in that I get what you're saying. No in that if I'm the GM and I have to decide whether or not it's in the best interest of the franchise to pay someone 13 million for the next 8 years or whatever it is, you better believe I'm going to take into consideration how the guy played in the playoffs.

If Kane/Toews had no playoff series wins on their resumes, do you think they would have gotten the contracts that they did? I say not a chance, they were paid because they both had been excellent and were a big part of why the team went deep and won multiple cups.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Marner should come in at around what Pasta signed for. If he wants 12, fine, but we need to draw a line with these guys somewhere.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

As good as Marner is, he will always be judged in light of his contract.

And the tactics his camp used during negotiations.

Unfortunately for Marner it is a situation of his own making. And one that overshadows his on ice performance. As remarkable as it has been.

If Nylander is the doughboy, then Marner is the Marshmallow Man.

If I am reading his stat sheet correctly (I am), he has never once taken a major penalty. Which means he has never been in a “fight”. He averages six minor penalties a year.

So basically, he doesn’t stand up for his teammates.

Ever.

When there is a scrum after play, Marner is the one that will be tugging on the back of guys jersey’s. Not one to be a hero, he will not be leading the charge. No one will be grabbing the hitch of his sweater.

Perhaps I’m being too harsh.

I’m putting Marner down unfairly and scapegoating him. And you may be right. And had Marner shown more loyalty to the team during contract negotiations, I may be more sympathetic.

But probably not.

Along with Nylander, Marner exemplifies everything that is wrong with this Leafs team: Soft and greedy. While he didn’t get the chance to hold out (we all know he would have), Marner was even more more blasphemous by entertaining other teams in attempt to solicit an offer sheet. He insisted on fighting dirty.

So why shouldn't he expect fans and media to do the same?

In order to justify his salary, Marner would have to be the best winger in the league. And a top 5 player in the game. This he most certainly is not.

And until he does become one, he will continue to be dissected and criticized on hockey forums and in media. Perhaps somewhat unfairly.

But still justifiably so.

 

[LeafGrief]

We are 2 cups away from any of the big 3 contract expirations. Not sure how you can make a statement without caveats

Do you actually need me to put every caveat in the post? If they pop off and win us a cup this year, yeah they can have Toews and Kane cup winning contracts, give them all max deals for 8 years and we can celebrate by becoming a shadow of what we were, just like the Hawks!

The argument stands though. We have six years of seeing how big stars with minimal depth just can't get it done. If we do win this year, it will be with the lesson that we have to trade piles of futures to acquire cost effective depth to surround our stars. If we give fat raises to the big guns, that's another decade of the same strategy and the well of futures will run dry sooner rather than later. Sustainability should be a consideration in the planning of team building, what's the point in having these stars if we aren't going to win?