Player Discussion Marner

[Antropovsky]

It makes it very difficult for him. So far he’s a 95 point guy but he’s getting paid like he’s Kucherov putting up 130 points.

With a better linemate than kucherov. Imagine Matthews and Kucherov?

 

[666]

You had better check on how you are using the term.

By the way, I am not ignoring facts - at most I am looking at them from a different viewpoint, and in fact I am looking at them in a greater context, and thereby arriving at a different conclusion. I'm not saying mpy conclusions are any better or worse than yours, just different.

But there is no cognitive dissonance.

And there it is. Right there.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think this is all fair. 13-14% is roughly what I'd expect Marner to get from any team.

The issue is does this team want to base it's cap structure with 2 RWs making similar amounts of that level of capspace moving forward.

A deep playoff run makes 'yes' and easier option than 'no'. An early exit indicates that deeper changes to the team are further required

That's one issue. Another issue (and I would say this is an even bigger issue), is that playoff Marner <<< regular season Marner and considering how poorly he played in our last two playoff series, betting on him turning things around seems like a longshot.

Brad Treliving admitted it’s about talent. He has said in multiple interviews when asked about this topic. “It’s extremely hard to acquire talent” that tells us everything we need to know. How is it a strawman argument? It’s the truth. Name me a Stanley cup team that has let a star player go to UFA and then replace him with multiple free agents and won a cup. Its never happened. Any team that has changed their core has done it through trade. That option is not available for the maple leafs anymore. They are not going to build a winner through UFA if they let Marner go. They are going to overpay some very average players and the leafs management knows it. That’s why it’s not even a real consideration.

I do believe management was open to changing up the core if one of the guys would waive. It’s the only way to get as close to value back as possible for these guys. As it makes sense to do so via trade. But thinking you’re going to do that via free agency is a losing bet.

It's hard to acquire talent, but winning is even harder so no it's not about talent, it's about winning. If you were to ask Berube what he would like to accomplish in Toronto, do he think he's going say acquire talent? I think you and I both know that what he would say, it's that he wants to win the cup. It's always been about winning and it always will be.

You said that:
people acting like replacing Marner’s production with workhorses from UFA is going to immediately pan out and turn us into instant contenders are being a bit delusional

I don't think anyone has said that, and that's what I was referring to as being a strawman argument.

I admire your optimism I really do. I hope Marner turns into a playoff monster and you're proven to be right in the end that he's worth committing to for another mega contract. Based on his career so far though (especially the last few years), he looks like a regular season superstar who's game doesn't translate to playoff hockey. He might have all the talent in the world but when the checking gets tighter, the games get more physical and Marner doesn't have the time and space to "work his magic", he's just hasn't been nearly as effective.

 

[Nineteen67]

With a better linemate than kucherov. Imagine Matthews and Kucherov?

Or what if Matthews became as good as Kucherov?

 

[TMLAM34]

Hope this Matthews - Marner duo comes to an end soon.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Hope this Matthews - Marner duo comes to an end soon.

Domi back on the first line please.

 

[keonsbitterness]

You had better check on how you are using the term.

It is my thoughts and my actions being in conflict. If my thoughts are that Marner is a good but not great player, and my actions are that I post that, there is no conflict, and no "cognitive dissonance".

If I ignore facts, that is ignoring facts, not cognitive dissonance.

If, for example, someone looks at all the evidence and believes that acquiring Tavares was a bad idea, but continues to post that it was a brilliant move, they are experiencing cognitive dissonance.

By the way, I am not ignoring facts - at most I am looking at them from a different viewpoint, and in fact I am looking at them in a greater context, and thereby arriving at a different conclusion. I'm not saying mpy conclusions are any better or worse than yours, just different.

But there is no cognitive dissonance.

I was told there would be no math on this site.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hope this Matthews - Marner duo comes to an end soon.

Amen brother.

Domi back on the first line please.

Yes please.

 

[Mess]

Marner should be put on a system to earn his next contract based entirely on the merits of his performance and statistical contribution.

For every goal he scores +$100k and for every assist earned +$75k

ie. A 100 point regular season based on 30 goals @ $100k & 75 assists @ $75k = $8,625,000 AAV

Kucherov the best RW in the game put up 81 games 44 goals 100 assists 144 points and makes $9.5 mil AAV , So based on the same reward scale as Marner above his actual contract would be $11,900,000.

 

[sunstersun]

He's been an absolute disaster in the last two playoff series the Leafs played.

We easily win the Boston series if he's a PPG player instead of a total scrub.

Turnovers, giveaways, being a softie on the puck.

I'm not interested in 100 point seasons. If he gets 110 great. Lets see it in the postseason.

 

[666]

Marner should be put on a system to earn his next contract based entirely on the merits of his performance and statistical contribution.

For every goal he scores +$100k and for every assist earned +$75k

Again. Goals and points that's all some people see. They simply do not understand the defensive game. Fascinating how one dimensional some of you watch and understand the game.

 

[HellasLEAF]

He's basically at or near his prime. There is perhaps more ceiling as he further matures but how much more it's hard to say.

He's a very smart player. You can see that on the pk. He's so smart and talented it makes up for his lack of speed, shot and physicality.

Anyway you slice it this player at 11 or 13 is a luxury when you probably can't afford it. Unless you can.

 

[BM14]

Hypothetical to the Marner fans:

Marner’s next contract $ goes to Shesty…do you think this team is better?