Player Discussion Marner

[Legion34]

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Marner got Selke votes, and Matthews got nothing.

Marner got All-Star team votes, and Matthews got nothing.

Marner's PPG is higher by the way.

Sure, they have never been on the same level...

You are looking at a guy who was
On pace for top 5 in goals. Goal
Scoring C are worth more than play making wingers.

Auston Matthews has always been the better player

 

[notbias]

You are looking at a guy who was
On pace for top 5 in goals. Goal
Scoring C are worth more than play making wingers.

Auston Matthews has always been the better player

They were around the same level, I don't care if people want to remember their ELCs differently, they were the same level.

Now, they aren't, no argument there.

 

[Legion34]

Watch exemple pittsburgh when they sign crosby at 8,7M...No body can asking more to their gm than crosby money

Crosby signed at 13,48 % of salary cap...

If you sign tavares at 11M and after you need to sign your best player... oups you already gave close of 14% of salary cap for a guy who was 2 or 3rd best player st this moment.

So Nylander watched all the money spent on jt, he tried to compare himself to him and try to bring back the most hr can.

So unstead to sign exemple matthews at 13,48% of salary cap ( woulb be arround 10,8M, because of JT contract for sure matthews will want more so he sign higher nd elevate at his turn salary cap standard

So Marner watch this, hum im the 3rd best player but not that far of jt and Mm so i will sign at 10, 9 unstead of 9-10...

So at the end probably every key player sign 1 M over than what they should because Dubas etablish his standard with jt contract. Its how its working in the NHL.

The Crosby thing is disingenuous. He was coming off two massive injuries and rook
104 million dollars on a cheater
Deal. He signed for 17% cap odd his ELC.

 

[thusk]

The Crosby thing is disingenuous. He was coming off two massive injuries and rook
104 million dollars on a cheater
Deal. He signed for 17% cap odd his ELC.

That's change nothing, you can take the club you want...

Your best player normally is the guy who will set up cap structure of the team...

 

[Legion34]

That's change nothing, you can take the club you want...

Your best player normally is the guy who will set up cap structure of the team...

It absolutely changes things. Crosby took a contract that was illegal when Tavares came up. They aren’t comparable.

 

[arso40]

I agree with the overall sentiment of this post. The only part I’d push back on is the idea Marner was a more complete player earlier in their careers.

I think one excels at goalscoring heavily, one excels at playmaking heavily. Matthews however has been the better two way player at every step imo even if it wasn’t really recognized earlier on by many.

Still a better overall player though so you can’t agree with them that’s contradictory

 

[Legion34]

They were around the same level, I don't care if people want to remember their ELCs differently, they were the same level.

Now, they aren't, no argument there.

They weren’t though. Matthews was better.
He was a goal scoring C who scored the second most goals per game and 6 most ELC goals in the last 30 years.

 

[arso40]

You are looking at a guy who was
On pace for top 5 in goals. Goal
Scoring C are worth more than play making wingers.

Auston Matthews has always been the better player

What are these guys smoking

 

[notDatsyuk]

the day you're etablish your own standard at 11M in your team for those in your system, you created your own standsrd at this salary... and costimg you your negociation weapon

If he didn't understand that giving a UFA $11M does not mean you have to give an RFA $11M, then he's even more incompetent than previously thought.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner and Matthews were on the same level at one point... Matthews has separated himself from Marner and almost everyone in the league.

I agree - they were on the same level until about 7:35PM on October 12, 2016.

 

[notbias]

They weren’t though. Matthews was better.
He was a goal scoring C who scored the second most goals per game and 6 most ELC goals in the last 30 years.

How much extra are goals worth? I just want to know how much better Matthews is than McDavid.

 

[arso40]

How much extra are goals worth? I just want to know how much better Matthews is than McDavid.

He’s not cause mcdavid can score 70 if he puts his mind to it I’m sure

 

[francis246]

They weren’t though. Matthews was better.
He was a goal scoring C who scored the second most goals per game and 6 most ELC goals in the last 30 years.

This is a strawman argument;

You’re misrepresenting Marner’s contributions by focusing solely on goal scoring and completely ignoring the broader context of assists/playmaking and overall point totals. By doing so, it simplifies the debate to just goals, which doesn’t fully address the value Marner brings as a player or even what Matthews brings as a complete player.

 

[Gabriel426]

They were around the same level, I don't care if people want to remember their ELCs differently, they were the same level.

Now, they aren't, no argument there.

MM was never in the same level as AM.

Everyone in the hockey World knows AM's contact after ELC will be between Eichel and McD, just didn't expect it to be 5 years instead of 8years like the other two.

Despite MM getting more points than AM during their ELC, MM was never consider at the same level as AM, bc if he was, he won't be signing for 10.893 and will either be the same or just a bit lower than AM.

Your MM obsession have gone to next level, I am actually worry about you if MM leaves the Leafs in a few months when he can sign a much better deal than the Leafs can offer.

 

[Gabriel426]

This is a strawman argument;

You’re misrepresenting Marner’s contributions by focusing solely on goal scoring and completely ignoring the broader context of assists/playmaking and overall point totals. By doing so, it simplifies the debate to just goals, which doesn’t fully address the value Marner brings as a player or even what Matthews brings as a complete player.

Yes, but is there an award for having the most assists in the game?
Had anyone ever coin the phrase 50 assists player?
Can you get an assist without your team scoring a goal?
Can you score a goal without someone giving you an assist?

I don't think it is fair to solely focus on goals and let that be the ultimate argument of how good or how big the impact a player has on the team but goal is pretty important.

When looking at AM's scoring and MM's playmaking, not going to go into their defense, it is fair to ask the question, would AM still scored those goals if the guy who passed him the puck is Kampf or Engvall or anyone but MM? Then ask the question, would other players scored in same position as AM after MM made the pass to him?

Most importantly, are they WINNERS? What have they won as the dynamic duo for the Leafs? ONE series WIN in 8 playoffs.

 

[Confucius]

If he didn't understand that giving a UFA $11M does not mean you have to give an RFA $11M, then he's even more incompetent than previously thought.

Not only that but you get a UFA at no cost other than his salary. A homegrown player costs you a draft pick as well. How much would a team pay for a 1st overall pick or a top 10 player in the league? Would a team not pay, McDavid, Bedard, Mathews a million or 2 a year more if they just got them for nothing and still kept their 1st round pick. JT’s overall cost was 11 million, Marner’s cost was 11 million plus a 4th overall pick.