Player Discussion Marner

[WTFMAN99]

Your correct, I meant 5v5, not even strength. Even strength includes 4v4. Marner plays better in open ice.

Marner is ranked 61st in 5v5 points right now.


Lol.. Mcdavid had 72 last year, and almost a full 1 point per 60 over Marner.

Marner has played 20% of the season this year and has only 1 5v5 first assist that was an actual pass. Try to spin it however you want but thats incredibly bad. The scary oart is people say hes been way better than last year.

I'm not the biggest Marner fan but your mental gymnastics are incredible,

20 pts in 14 GP in this league is a hell of a start. It's even more impressive when we had a PP that was 32nd in the league up until a few games ago.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why are you doing all of that Nylanders unable to create anything ? Did you see what he did last year ? He improves every year so it’s fair to look at his improvement and suggest it’s going to continue looking at marner it’s harder to justify him improving cause he hasn’t really done so the last couple of years but he’s playing a bit more physical so here’s to hoping it translates but let’s not doing that my friend


No he hasn’t I can see him being more engaged physically but Mitch’s magic has been evident in the regular season for years I want him resigned too but he won’t be eligible for this next level til the playoffs easy on the glazing

The idea that Nylander doesn't get much ice time because he's "unable to create anything" is one of the most hilarious things I've read here in age. I'd go even further than that, and say that not playing Nylander enough when he was the only one of our stars who was creating chances in several playoff games, was the most obvious of all his coaching mistakes.

Jebus dude, how many times do you have to be shown the most simplest things. Why can't you just look this stuff up yourself and get over your bizarre obsession with comparing points between regular season and playoffs. There is so much more to the game than points.

Here are the facts:
last 3 seasons 5v5, playoff sample size is small but it is what it is.

	regular season			playoffs			PO/RS
Player	GP	GF/60	GA/60	GP	GF/60	GA/60	GF/60	GA/60
Mitchell Marner	221​	3.71​	2.43​	25​	3.13​	1.72​	0.84​	0.71​
Auston Matthews	228​	4.11​	2.53​	23​	2.83​	2.05​	0.69​	0.81​
John Tavares	239​	2.91​	2.71​	25​	2.06​	2.24​	0.71​	0.83​
William Nylander	245​	3.09​	2.92​	22​	2.20​	2.56​	0.71​	0.88​

When Marner is on the ice in the playoffs offensive production is 84% of the regular season but its only 69% for Matthews and 71% for Nylander and Tavares. The drop in offensive production when Marner is on the ice is LESS than the others.
The entire core all falls off offensively in the playoff but Marner does better than the others.

When Marner is on the ice in the playoffs goals against (in this case the smaller number is better) is 71% of the regular season but its only 81% for Matthews and 83% Tavares and 88% for Nylander. The drop in goals against when Marner is on the ice higher than the others.
The entire core does better defensively in the playoffs as it's tighter checking but Marner does better than the others.

Can you finally shut up about points and start watching the games and not the puck.

Jebus?

Calm down dude. These numbers are based on +- which pretty much everyone besides you realized many years ago is not a good way of evaluating players, especially with such a small sample size. Even Don Cherry figured this out decades ago, wake up and smell the coffee.

Ive asked this question to Marner supporters, but they always scatter.

How many of these goals did Marner drive, how many did his linemates drive?

Everyone wants to post paper stats but dont want to discuss the eye test?

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=all+leafs+goals+playoffs+2024

I've noticed this myself. I guess even the most diehard Marner fans understand that if they want to maintain the illusion that Marner is some sort of superstar, there are some facts that must be ignored.

I watched the Edmonton vs Dallas postseason games and it was incredibly physical and fast, much more than the Boston Leafs first round. Marner wouldve shi% himself in that game. Hes not good in fast paced, physical games.. the puck becomes a hot potato for him and in those games he becomes an 11 million liability.

Exactly. I posted something similar during the playoffs, not sure if it was re. EDM or not but once the players adjust to the playoffs, the checking gets tighter and the hitting gets harder, Marner becomes a non-factor, it's that simple. But hey, he's often fun to watch in November.

 

[Antropovsky]

I'm not the biggest Marner fan but your mental gymnastics are incredible,

20 pts in 14 GP in this league is a hell of a start. It's even more impressive when we had a PP that was 32nd in the league up until a few games ago.

Posting for the 100th time waiting for the first response from a Marner supporter - 2024 was Marners most productive postseason, how many of these goals did Marner drive?

 

[ACC1224]

I'm not the biggest Marner fan but your mental gymnastics are incredible,

20 pts in 14 GP in this league is a hell of a start. It's even more impressive when we had a PP that was 32nd in the league up until a few games ago.

Incredible = asinine

 

[Evilhomer]

LMAO, yeah right. Marner's playing the same way he always plays in November. If you think producing offence against a crappy team like MTL in November means we can count on him producing against a good team like Florida in the playoffs, well enjoy your koolaid I guess.

Agree completely. No one should take anything from games against teams like Detroit and Montreal (or Ottawa, for that matter). Completely meaningless games.

That has been my entire point. I do not believe Tavares will be a leaf making 6 million plus. If he’s making that money it’s gonna be elsewhere not here. Lebrun reported Tampa offered in the 3 mill to 4 mill range for Stamkos, who is better than Tavares. So I expect a similar situation where Toronto says we have 4 million or 4.5 million for you. Take it or leave it.

If Tavares leaves so be it.

And he won't. He will take it. He is not going to play anywhere else.

 

[ACC1224]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/it-was-a-really-cool-moment-and-something-ill-cherish-why-the-maple-leafs-picked-mitch-marner-to-take-hall-of-fame-games-ceremonial-puck-drop-with-pavel-datsyuk

"His leadership is excellent. I mean, he goes out and leads by example with his play and he's a leader that plays both ends of the ice, in my opinion. He does a lot of good things defensively. He does as much defensively as he does offensively. He's getting points because he's doing things right the other way, and that's a big part of it," Berube said.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I said Everyone game drop in playoff and you trying to convince yourself its not the case by moving down production but ignoring the fact than Marner started to play at rate of 75-82% vs top matchup ( he's playing at higher rate vs opp top 6 than Barkov who's probably right now top 2-way player in the NHL) but Nylander drop at 50-55%

You just want everything to blame Marner over anyone else than you're just unable to accept than its different to play vs Pastrnak/Kucherov than Maroon.

What you said was that everyone drastically drops off in the playoffs. You are wrong, period.

Matchups less than nothing to do with it. M&M always face tough matchups both regular season and the playoffs, so do the players on top lines on every team in the universe. But that's no excuse, top players keep on producing offence same as the regular season. Rantanen for example is a playoff beast but Marner, the guy so far hasn't figured out how to be anywhere near as productive as he is during the regular season. I know you're loath to admit it but it's the simple truth.

Just as exemple Despite Nylander missed 3 game, he played 12 minutes more than Marner in the series ( 19 min total)

LOLOLOLOL.

You're lost. Go get some sleep or something, sheesh.

 

[Antropovsky]

The idea that Nylander doesn't get much ice time because he's "unable to create anything" is one of the most hilarious things I've read here in age. I'd go even further than that, and say that not playing Nylander enough when he was the only one of our stars who was creating chances in several playoff games, was the most obvious of all his coaching mistakes.


Jebus?

Calm down dude. These numbers are based on +- which pretty much everyone besides you realized many years ago is not a good way of evaluating players, especially with such a small sample size. Even Don Cherry figured this out decades ago, wake up and smell the coffee.


I've noticed this myself. I guess even the most diehard Marner fans understand that if they want to maintain the illusion that Marner is some sort of superstar, there are some facts that must be ignored.


Exactly. I posted something similar during the playoffs, not sure if it was re. EDM or not but once the players adjust to the playoffs, the checking gets tighter and the hitting gets harder, Marner becomes a non-factor, it's that simple. But hey, he's often fun to watch in November.

These are the reasons, I cant rally bwhind Marner. Just from last 3 games. He shows time and time again that his postseason flaws. Id take him at the right price,, but itz signifcantly less than hes gonna want.

1) He reluctantly joined the Tanev vs Pastrnak scrum and Domi vs Savard scrums and was the last guy to join both. He let the opposition know he didnt want any roughness.

2) He head butted the puck twice in yesterdays game, who knows why... he cant resist the cute showboating stuff.

3) vs Detroit, with their goalie pulled, he quit playing to complain to the ref because he though Detroit went offsides. Deteoit almost scored as a result. At the end of the game, he went to the ref to complain while his team celebrated. Looks like he didnt learn anything from Nylander telling him to quit crying bro.

4) He struggles to generate offense 5v5. He only has 2 goals and 6 assists 5v5 this year. Only 1 first assist was an actual intented pass.

 

[Antropovsky]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/it-was-a-really-cool-moment-and-something-ill-cherish-why-the-maple-leafs-picked-mitch-marner-to-take-hall-of-fame-games-ceremonial-puck-drop-with-pavel-datsyuk

Lol dont forget the rest of the Berube quote from the article you posted [not sure why you left it out ]:

"I don't know why he was chose to take the faceoff, but probably because he was a huge fan of Datsyuk, who was obviously a great 200-foot player, two-way player. You don't win three Selkes for nothing."

 

[DarkKnight]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/it-was-a-really-cool-moment-and-something-ill-cherish-why-the-maple-leafs-picked-mitch-marner-to-take-hall-of-fame-games-ceremonial-puck-drop-with-pavel-datsyuk

Coach loves him.

 

[Antropovsky]

Coach loves him.

Until playoffs

 

[ACC1224]

Coach loves him.

Everyone does excluding four or five here.

 

[Antropovsky]

I said Everyone game drop in playoff and you trying to convince yourself its not the case by moving down production but ignoring the fact than Marner started to play at rate of 75-82% vs top matchup ( he's playing at higher rate vs opp top 6 than Barkov who's probably right now top 2-way player in the NHL) but Nylander drop at 50-55%

You just want everything to blame Marner over anyone else than you're just unable to accept than its different to play vs Pastrnak/Kucherov than Maroon.

Just as exemple Despite Nylander missed 3 game, he played 12 minutes more than Marner in the series ( 19 min total)



outside of MTL series he scored 1 5v5 goal and like 3 or 4 assist against any top opp line in 47 game.

Everything he did offensively was in the 31 min he played against boston bottom 6 ( and like i said despite missed 3 game played 12 min more than marner against those matchup, it's huge).

The day he will be able to translate it even gaibst good player, it will be different but right now he just showing he can't play those matchup

Everyone complains about playoff Tavares but neglet to point out he mostly got defensive zone starts, while Marner got much more offensive zone playoff starts.

Offensive zone start % 2024 playoffs:
Marner 63%
Nylander 45%
Tavares 33%

Also... note that Marner fans always apeculate hes injures in the playoffa when he isnt...but Matthews and Nylander were actually ill but they show them no mercy lol.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Marner is fantastic. I hope he remains a Leaf for years to come.

 

[Antropovsky]

Everyone does excluding four or five here.

2 consecutive years majority on this board voted that he would be traded but stick to your world of denial lol

 

[francis246]

Everyone does excluding four or five here.

I would say its pretty much down to one person, who honestly hates him for no reason. Don’t really get those vibes from anyone else.

 

[Confucius]

These are the reasons, I cant rally bwhind Marner. Just from last 3 games. He shows time and time again that his postseason flaws. Id take him at the right price,, but itz signifcantly less than hes gonna want.

1) He reluctantly joined the Tanev vs Pastrnak scrum and Domi vs Savard scrums and was the last guy to join both. He let the opposition know he didnt want any roughness.

2) He head butted the puck twice in yesterdays game, who knows why... he cant resist the cute showboating stuff.

3) vs Detroit, with their goalie pulled, he quit playing to complain to the ref because he though Detroit went offsides. Deteoit almost scored as a result. At the end of the game, he went to the ref to complain while his team celebrated. Looks like he didnt learn anything from Nylander telling him to quit crying bro.

4) He struggles to generate offense 5v5. He only has 2 goals and 6 assists 5v5 this year. Only 1 first assist was an actual intented pass.

The last 3 games Mitch was 2nd star, 3rd star, 1st star. Yet you post negative events over the 3 games. It’s pretty obvious he can’t do anything right in your eyes.

 

[Antropovsky]

The last 3 games Mitch was 2nd star, 3rd star, 1st star. Yet you post negative events over the 3 games. It’s pretty obvious he can’t do anything right in your eyes.

Yea, he cant play playoff hockey lol. Hes proven that over his entire career, what do you want me to do. lie to you?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Everyone does excluding four or five here.

I just think it needs to be a reasonable extension if he's going to stay, something like 11.75M but defers salary to get it down to like 11-11.55M range, or if he can defer more, the better. Similar to McCabe and Jarvis.

That could be a win-win - team keeps him and he looks like a team player.

 

[Antropovsky]

I would say its pretty much down to one person, who honestly hates him for no reason. Don’t really get those vibes from anyone else.

Why dont you ask your relative.. you know the one who apparently was a high upnexecutive for the Leafs and gave you completely incorrect information about the quit crying bro story?

What relation was that guy to you again? what was his explanation when you confronted him with his completely bogus story he reportedy fed you? You must have been pissed! Completely destroying your credibility like that.

 

[Confucius]

Yea, he cant play playoff hockey lol. Hes proven that over his entire career, what do you want me to do. lie to you?

Be a little more fair in your criticism for those 3 games. You guys always default to lack of playoff success. So it doesn’t matter what he does in games that are presently taking place.

 

[GoonieFace]

I would say its pretty much down to one person, who honestly hates him for no reason. Don’t really get those vibes from anyone else.

It’s a bit much for sure, but that’s the beauty of it, everyone can evaluate a player as they wish.

While I don’t agree with his over the top hatred, there are some valid points there. There have been players in every sport that can accumulate points, but the eye test sometimes doesn’t match.

I think alot of the Marner push back is solely based on a select group of posters who make any excuse to pump his tires. Make comments that seem like he is the only one on the ice at times. And again, those posters have every right to do so.

Just wish we could keep the personal insults out of it. It’s healthy to have different opinions and we shouldn’t really get upset over it.

 

[Stringer Bell]

What is Marner doing now that is different that would make him all of a sudden more successful in the playoffs?

 

[Antropovsky]

Be a little more fair in your criticism for those 3 games. You guys always default to lack of playoff success. So it doesn’t matter what he does in games that are presently taking place.

Ive been fair.. he works his butt off in season games. Ive always said this is his strength. And he preys on players slacking. More so this year than others because its a contract year, so hes working especially hard and a little more willing to battle.

But the problem, as ive always pointed out, is that others raise their work ethic up and beyond his in the playoffs. Compound this with teams playing more physical, faster and there being less space out there and Marner completely shrivels up. He loses all his advantage and becomes a burden to his line more than an advantage.

Nylander is a little bit of the opposite...but hes so skilled offensively that it doesnt matter when the opposition raises their game, he still is too skilled and has an advantage.

 

[GoonieFace]

What is Marner doing now that is different that would make him all of a sudden more successful in the playoffs?

He seems to be going to the “dirty” areas a little more. Will that continue? Who knows. I’ve said it before, he’s not a very fast point A to B skater and lacks that burst. This is why he is usually neutered in the playoffs. But if he fights for his space, than maybe he can find some success