Player Discussion Marner

[Smif]

Time and time again?

Whats his stats without 11.5 million Matthews and without 11 million Tavares?

He very rarely has played without them since 2019. Here is ALL the mins Marner has played without Tavares or Matthews. Be prepared there is ALOT:

2024: 16 mins with Domi and Bertuzzi outscored 2-1.

2020: 47 mins with Kerfoot and Mikheyev
outscored 3-1.

So there is really no evidence that he produces without Tavares and Matthews and he most certainly hasn't done it "time and time again" lol.

Marner has played almost 600 games and you cherry pick 4 games out of his entire career. I wonder how much time you just spent on the most useless stat I've ever seen.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner has played almost 600 games and you cherry pick 4 games out of his entire career. I wonder how much time you just spent on the most useless stat I've ever seen.

Your angry because I'm pointing out that your information isn't true? And I actually supported my statement with stats? Something you neglected to do.

You said he's proven time and time again he produces no matter who he plays with

Since 2019 he's only played approx 70 mins without Matthews or Tavares as his centers. In those mins without an 11 million dollar linemate, his line was outscored.

Your statement is completely incorrect lol.

 

[Smif]

Your angry because I'm pointing out that your information isn't true? And I actually supported my statement with stats? Something you neglected to do.

You said he's proven time and time again he can produces no matter who he plays with

Since 2019 he's only played approx 70 mins without Matthews or Tavares as his centers. In those mins his line was outscored.

Your statement is completely incorrect lol.

You chose 60 minutes out of approximately 11,820 minutes (591 games x 20mins) in his career and you want me to respond with substance? Your initial post is so dumb it doesn't deserve any thought whatsoever.

 

[Antropovsky]

You chose 60 minutes out of approximately 11,820 minutes (591 games x 20mins) in his career and you want me to respond with substance? Your initial post is so dumb it doesn't deserve any thought whatsoever.

Why don't you explain your post? You said he's proven time and time again that he can produce with any linemate. He's literally had the same two highly paid linemates since 2019.

So...where is this sample size of Marner producing "time and time" again with different linemates?

 

[Gary Nylund]

The thing with Marner is he's proven time and time again that he produces no matter who he plays with.

And in the regular season, he even produces like a star!

 

[Smif]

Why don't you explain your post? You said he's proven time and time again that he can produce with any linemate. He's literally had the same two highly paid linemates since 2019.

So...where is this sample size of Marner producing "time and time" again with different linemates?

JVR increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 17% playing with Mitch (2017-2018)

JT increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 20% playing with Mitch (2018-2019). It then dropped again by 20% immediately the next season because he was removed from Mitch.

The following season Matthews was paired with Marner and Matthews increased his goal scoring by 21%

Matthews has 3 rockets in the last 5 seasons playing with Mitch. He also would've won it in 2019-2020 had he not been injured which would've been 4 rockets out of 5 seasons. He had zero rockets prior to being paired with Mitch.

 

[Gary Nylund]

JVR increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 17% playing with Mitch (2017-2018)

JT increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 20% playing with Mitch (2018-2019). It then dropped again by 20% immediately the next season because he was removed from Mitch.

The following season Matthews was paired with Marner and Matthews increased his goal scoring by 21%

Matthews has 3 rockets in the last 5 seasons playing with Mitch. He also would've won it in 2019-2020 had he not been injured which would've been 4 rockets out of 5 seasons. He had zero rockets prior to being paired with Mitch.

And Matthew did even better with Domi last season which shows that either Domi's a superstar, or that looking at numbers like this is far from conclusive.

If you been watching Marner all these years, you don't to analyze any numbers to know that he's very good in the regular season, very good for the first few games of the playoffs and then, boom, he drops off a cliff and if you're happy with that, then that's fine,

 

[thusk]

And Matthew did even better with Domi last season which shows that either Domi's a superstar, or that looking at numbers like this is far from conclusive.

If you been watching Marner all these years, you don't to analyze any numbers to know that he's very good in the regular season, very good for the first few games of the playoffs and then, boom, he drops off a cliff and if you're happy with that, then that's fine,

Just tell me please wich player had been good in playoff in Toronto?

The entire team game drop come playoff time and thats whu they struggle in playoff and marner is not worst than anyone else.

 

[Smif]

And Matthew did even better with Domi last season which shows that either Domi's a superstar, or that looking at numbers like this is far from conclusive.

If you been watching Marner all these years, you don't to analyze any numbers to know that he's very good in the regular season, very good for the first few games of the playoffs and then, boom, he drops off a cliff and if you're happy with that, then that's fine,

He did better with Domi for two weeks. It's such a dumb example. Players get hot, Matthews got hot those two weeks, it's nothing Domi did, he has a career worth of evidence that shows Domi is not close to the player Marner is. I'm a Domi fan btw, at $4M I think he's great value to us and great for spot duty if JT or Matthews gets injured. He's no where near Marner level tho.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Just tell me please wich player had been good in playoff in Toronto?

The entire team game drop come playoff time and thats whu they struggle in playoff and marner is not worst than anyone else.

Garbage post, the numbers have been shown many times. JT and Marner both suffer massive production drop-offs in the playoffs, Matthews has the same problem (though not as bad) and Nylander's production doesn't drop off at all.

He did better with Domi for two weeks. It's such a dumb example. Players get hot, Matthews got hot those two weeks, it's nothing Domi did, he has a career worth of evidence that shows Domi is not close to the player Marner is. I'm a Domi fan btw, at $4M I think he's great value to us and great for spot duty if JT or Matthews gets injured. He's no where near Marner level tho.

Two weeks?

Better check your sources again.

 

[Smif]

Garbage post, the numbers have been shown many times. JT and Marner both suffer massive production drop-offs in the playoffs, Matthews has the same problem (though not as bad) and Nylander's production doesn't drop off at all.


Two weeks?

Better check your sources again.

Two weeks, a month who cares, that's like what 12 games? Domi has played almost 700 games, he didn't turn into Kucherov for a month, it's just that Matthewa got hot is all.

 

[francis246]

And Matthew did even better with Domi last season which shows that either Domi's a superstar, or that looking at numbers like this is far from conclusive.

If you been watching Marner all these years, you don't to analyze any numbers to know that he's very good in the regular season, very good for the first few games of the playoffs and then, boom, he drops off a cliff and if you're happy with that, then that's fine,

Limited sample size. We cannot dismiss that. The domi / Matthews numbers were never going to be sustainable.

Though it seems like a good pairing. The numbers support they should be given a longer leash

 

[Antropovsky]

JVR increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 17% playing with Mitch (2017-2018)

JT increased his goal scoring from his previous all time high by 20% playing with Mitch (2018-2019). It then dropped again by 20% immediately the next season because he was removed from Mitch.

The following season Matthews was paired with Marner and Matthews increased his goal scoring by 21%

Matthews has 3 rockets in the last 5 seasons playing with Mitch. He also would've won it in 2019-2020 had he not been injured which would've been 4 rockets out of 5 seasons. He had zero rockets prior to being paired with Mitch.

So if Marner was so good and elevated Tavares than why didn't their success continue? Why did it suddenly drop off the next year? According to NaturalStatTrick these were their stats together next season:

Marner - Tavares 2020
284 mins 12GF 18GA

Marner Tavares Matthews played together and scored 3 goals and allowed 0.

So Tavares-Marner with a winger other than Matthews:
254 mins 9GF 18GA.
That's absolutely horrific!

The JVR stats your talking about are completely incorrect. It was 2018 not 2019.

2017-2018
JVR Bozak Marner
13 gf 14 GA.

2017-2018
JVR Bozak Brown
20 gf 12 GA.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Two weeks, a month who cares, that's like what 12 games? Domi has played almost 700 games, he didn't turn into Kucherov for a month, it's just that Matthewa got hot is all.

First you said two weeks, now a month. Still wrong. But sure, who cares. LOL.

Limited sample size. We cannot dismiss that. The domi / Matthews numbers were never going to be sustainable.

Though it seems like a good pairing. The numbers support they should be given a longer leash

Marner disappearing after the first 4 games of the playoffs is unfortunately not a small sample size, not any more.

 

[horner]

First you said two weeks, now a month. Still wrong. But sure, who cares. LOL.

Marner disappearing after the first 4 games of the playoffs is unfortunately not a small sample size, not any more.

I don't think his High ankle sprain was fully healed

 

[thusk]

Garbage post, the numbers have been shown many times. JT and Marner both suffer massive production drop-offs in the playoffs, Matthews has the same problem (though not as bad) and Nylander's production doesn't drop off at all.


Two weeks?

Better check your sources again.

Can you tell me how many goal did Nylander core at 5v5 last 3 year against any top 6 line? I wilk tell you the answer, the number is one... It was a bad angle shot and huge gift by Bobrovsky game 5. A player who's unable to producing anything against any good matchup for you = good hockey and don't have any drop in his game?

Imagine get a player who's struggling to produce against good matchup playing at 80% rate ( marner rate) vs opp top 6... How do you think he would look?

The difference between playing against good top line vs bottom line, take by exemple his 1st goal gm 6 vs Boston with his risky play at blue line. It was working vs beecher but try the same thing against pastrnak or marchand and its a clear breakaway against and unstead of leading 1-0, you're trailing 1-0

 

[Gary Nylund]

Can you tell me how many goal did Nylander core at 5v5 last 3 year against any top 6 line? I wilk tell you the answer, the number is one... It was a bad angle shot and huge gift by Bobrovsky game 5. A player who's unable to producing anything against any good matchup for you = good hockey and don't have any drop in his game?

Imagine get a player who's struggling to produce against good matchup playing at 80% rate ( marner rate) vs opp top 6... How do you think he would look?

The difference between playing against good top line vs bottom line, take by exemple his 1st goal gm 6 vs Boston with his risky play at blue line. It was working vs beecher but try the same thing against pastrnak or marchand and its a clear breakaway against and unstead of leading 1-0, you're trailing 1-0

Since we're in the Marner thread, here are his playoff numbers:

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

Imagine a player who's production drops off by this much once teams settle in to playoff hockey. You don't even have to imagine, just watch Marner play. But you go ahead, post some meaningless nonsense about Nylander, the one player who stays consistent in the playoffs in order to make you feel better about your boy.

I don't think his High ankle sprain was fully healed

You'd think after 8 years, it would get better ta some point but instead, it's getting worse?

Can you tell me how many goal did Nylander core at 5v5 last 3 year against any top 6 line? I wilk tell you the answer, the number is one... It was a bad angle shot and huge gift by Bobrovsky game 5. A player who's unable to producing anything against any good matchup for you = good hockey and don't have any drop in his game?

Imagine get a player who's struggling to produce against good matchup playing at 80% rate ( marner rate) vs opp top 6... How do you think he would look?

The difference between playing against good top line vs bottom line, take by exemple his 1st goal gm 6 vs Boston with his risky play at blue line. It was working vs beecher but try the same thing against pastrnak or marchand and its a clear breakaway against and unstead of leading 1-0, you're trailing 1-0

Tell us some about Nylander to deflect away from this:

Mitch Marner has 4 goals in his last 34 playoff games.​

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

 

[CelticDruid]

Can you tell me how many goal did Nylander core at 5v5 last 3 year against any top 6 line? I wilk tell you the answer, the number is one... It was a bad angle shot and huge gift by Bobrovsky game 5. A player who's unable to producing anything against any good matchup for you = good hockey and don't have any drop in his game?

Imagine get a player who's struggling to produce against good matchup playing at 80% rate ( marner rate) vs opp top 6... How do you think he would look?

The difference between playing against good top line vs bottom line, take by exemple his 1st goal gm 6 vs Boston with his risky play at blue line. It was working vs beecher but try the same thing against pastrnak or marchand and its a clear breakaway against and unstead of leading 1-0, you're trailing 1-0

 

[BullyHockey]

I know leafs fans are rightfully upset about playoff performance but the leafs brass would be stupid to let this guy go. I think he's resigning and they'll give JT the Stamkos treatment(take a substantial cut or walk). Marner is gonna be a life time leaf imo; who are you going to find that can impact the game in so many ways like he does.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I know leafs fans are rightfully upset about playoff performance but the leafs brass would be stupid to let this guy go. I think he's resigning and they'll give JT the Stamkos treatment(take a substantial cut or walk). Marner is gonna be a life time leaf imo; who are you going to find that can impact the game in so many ways like he does.

Because who cares about playoffs, right?

 

[Smif]

First you said two weeks, now a month. Still wrong. But sure, who cares. LOL.

Marner disappearing after the first 4 games of the playoffs is unfortunately not a small sample size, not any more.

Please tell me, I don't know and I don't think it makes a difference. I do know Marner played 69 games last year so that tells me he missed 13 which is a month. Did Domi transform into a superstar in that time? He's got 1 assist in his last 10 games this season.

 

[BullyHockey]

Because who cares about playoffs, right?

That's not what I said or meant. Leafs fans are right to be upset. All I am saying is that some leafs fans here might have sellers remorse when they realize they lost a guy who plays elite in all situations.

 

[thusk]

Since we're in the Marner thread, here are his playoff numbers:

Games 1-4 - 1.19 PPG
Games 5-7 - 0.47 PPG

Imagine a player who's production drops off by this much once teams settle in to playoff hockey. You don't even have to imagine, just watch Marner play. But you go ahead, post some meaningless nonsense about Nylander, the one player who stays consistent in the playoffs in order to make you feel better about your boy.


You'd think after 8 years, it would get better ta some point but instead, it's getting worse?


Tell us some about Nylander to deflect away from this:

Mitch Marner has 4 goals in his last 34 playoff games.​

Marners Playoff Career by game since the start of round 1 vs Boston in 2018
• ⁠Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games
• ⁠Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
• ⁠Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
• ⁠Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Games 1-4: 37 pts in 31 gp (98 point pace over 82 games)

Games 5-7: 8 pts in 17 gp (39 point pace over 82 games)

doesn't change the fact EVERYONE drastically drop in playoff... Try to blame someone more than everyone else will change nothing to this simple fact...

If toronto want to win,
Marner
Nylander
Matthews
Tavares
and the rest of team need to be better and don't see their game drastically drop

PS in the 47 playoff he played against any other team than MTL ( where he played most of time against 2nd year suzuki and 10 game in Caufield)... he had been able to score 1 5v5 goal against any top 6 line. 1 goal in 47 game, its pretty consistent im agree with you but not necessairly in the good way.. Nylander had been able to produce because leafs having player like Marner who's taking toughest matchup since his second NHL season and let Nylander playing easiest matchup. I know its a reality Marner hater don't like but it is what it is...

Maybe if Nylander would not be as trash against opposite top player, maybe Marner would not need to play as much against them and produce at higher rate? who's know that never happen

 

[HellasLEAF]

I think that each of Marner Nylander Matthews should probably drive their own line.

If Berube had it in him to divvy up those minutes. How do you tell one of them to head up a '3rd' line?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Marner's getting going really nicely making a lot of slick plays, showing patience and confidence with the puck