Marner vs Andrei Svechnikov

[Kelly]

Is Kelly a boys name?

lmao

Yeah, named after Kelly Gruber.

Damn, haven't heard that chirp since I was 7. Thanks for that.

 

[CanadienShark]

Meesta Svechnikov.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The myth that Marner is a two-way player needs to die

He's average at best defensively like Matthews. He is easily intimidated by physical play.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The myth that Marner is a two-way player needs to die

So your going to ignore the fact Marner is good defensively and plays on the Leafs #1 penalty kill line.

 

[Dekes For Days]

But in 18-19, a year he got the other end of the stick and posted a great .924% at 5v5, he still posted a pedestrian 2.62 GA/60.

0.924 is not "the other end of the stick". We're not talking about overall SV%; we're talking about 5v5 SV%. There's nothing wrong with that GA/60, considering Marner's role on the team and defensive quality around him that year.

To be clear, I didn't say he was bad defensively (seems to be middle of the pack perfectly ok tbh), I just wanted to know why someone could be considered elite defensively if they just put up the statline Marner did in 19-20. It's a bit odd, if a player who has never had an elite offensive season puts up a mediocre 30 points in 82 games, you wouldn't say he's elite offensively, context be damned, but people do this all the time when it comes to defensive production.

Most people don't have a clue when it comes to defense, and individual defensive impact from forwards tends to be really overrated at convenient times on HF, but at the same time, it's incorrect to say that Marner has never posted high-end defensive results, and goals against is a rather meaningless stat for properly evaluating defensive play, as goaltending factors in so heavily.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

There's nothing wrong with that GA/60

But I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, I was just pointing out it wasn't elite production.

it's incorrect to say that Marner has never posted high-end defensive results,

Where?

 

[IPS]

Lmao. How can you consider contracts as part of the equation when one of them is still on their ELC?

Because it's a required caveat so the poll doesn't look completely stupid.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

The guy who had over 3GA/60 at 5v5 in 19-20 is elite defensively?

I'm sure a 0.896 sv% wouldn't influence that at all ....

 

[Pyrophorus]

Most people don't have a clue when it comes to defense, and individual defensive impact from forwards tends to be really overrated at convenient times on HF, but at the same time, it's incorrect to say that Marner has never posted high-end defensive results, and goals against is a rather meaningless stat for properly evaluating defensive play, as goaltending factors in so heavily.

So true, most don't have a clue and can't quantify it.
So they default to "LaFfS must be bad"

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Who do you take right now? everything it's considering from age, contract, previous experience.

Andrei
Andrei Svechnikov Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Mitch
Mitch Marner Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Lol. Someone’s not too happy about the Marner-Pettersson poll.

 

[Regal]

Lmao. How can you consider contracts as part of the equation when one of them is still on their ELC?

I don't see it as a problem. It's not asking for just this year, which would be obvious considering the difference in cap, but looking at it long-term from the perspective as a GM, taking into consideration how you view them both as players today and going forward, what you think Svech can be signed for, years of control, etc. It's likely Svechnikov will come cheaper. We don't know for sure, but it's a risk in the same way that taking a player for potential in a poll is a risk or preferring draft picks is a risk.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't see it as a problem. It's not asking for just this year, which would be obvious considering the difference in cap, but looking at it long-term from the perspective as a GM, taking into consideration how you view them both as players today and going forward, what you think Svech can be signed for, years of control, etc. It's likely Svechnikov will come cheaper. We don't know for sure, but it's a risk in the same way that taking a player for potential in a poll is a risk or preferring draft picks is a risk.

Wouldn't you agree that if you consider their contracts they have today like the OP said, more people might choose Svechnikov because he's still playing on his ELC.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't see it as a problem. It's not asking for just this year, which would be obvious considering the difference in cap, but looking at it long-term from the perspective as a GM, taking into consideration how you view them both as players today and going forward, what you think Svech can be signed for, years of control, etc.

But nobody knows what Svechnikov will be signed for, or for how long. There's really no reason to believe he will sign a better contract relative to his quality, so I'm not sure how it's a relevant factor beyond allowing people to vote for Svechnikov because "LOL 10 MIL CHEAPER".

 

[Regal]

Wouldn't you agree that if you consider their contracts they have today like the OP said, more people might choose Svechnikov because he's still playing on his ELC.

Yes, that's in my first sentence. I don't believe that's the question though, because it's too obvious. Maybe I'm wrong

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes, that's in my first sentence. I don't believe that's the question though, because it's too obvious. Maybe I'm wrong

The OP clearly mentions their contracts.

Who do you take right now? everything it's considering from age, contract, previous experience.

Andrei
Andrei Svechnikov Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Mitch
Mitch Marner Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[Regal]

But nobody knows what Svechnikov will be signed for, or for how long. There's really no reason to believe he will sign a better contract relative to his quality, so I'm not sure how it's a relevant factor beyond allowing people to vote for Svechnikov because "LOL 10 MIL CHEAPER".

Just because we don't know doesn't mean we can't take an educated guess. And it's likely it will be better relative to his play because Svech has generally received fewer minutes early in his career despite killing those minutes, so his totals look worse than the quality of player he is, unless he puts up huge totals this year. Points factor heavily into contracts so efficient players tend to sign for below their value. If Marner signed after 17-18, he likely would be a steal today, but he was signed after his 94 point season. Svech also has the potential to be a similar level to Marner, so signing for less would be quite valuable.

 

[Regal]

The OP clearly mentions their contracts.

Yes, and I answered with regards to their contracts....

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

i think Marner will put up more points every year, but Svech has other dimensions to his game that make him more valuable.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just because we don't know doesn't mean we can't take an educated guess.

Most people don't have a clue when it comes to contracts though, and I'm not sure how people would even "educated guess" term. The most likely outcome from saying "consider contracts" in this comparison is people choosing Svechnikov because he's currently on his ELC.

And it's likely it will be better relative to his play because Svech has generally received fewer minutes early in his career despite killing those minutes, so his totals look worse than the quality of player he is.

Marner was massively undervalued by his raw points at time of signing; probably much more than Svechnikov will be.

He also has the potential to be a similar level to Marner

I mean, I love Svechnikov, but that's highly speculative at this point.

 

[Notsince67]

Because Svech is a better player?

Heh. There arent 3 players on Carolina that would be worth one Marner

 

[McVespa99]

Marner may be slightly better but as per the OP instructions taking contract into account this Has to be Svech.

 

[34]

Heh. There arent 3 players on Carolina that would be worth one Marner

You are right. Svech is a awesome player for sure, but I think Marner gets the nod here.

 

[Edgelord]

But in 18-19, a year he got the other end of the stick and posted a great .924% at 5v5, he still posted a pedestrian 2.62 GA/60. Meanwhile back in 19-20 his SCA/60 are middle of the pack on the Leafs, while his HDCA/60 are mid, leaning toward bottom- so it's not as if his line is an elite lockdown unit compared to the rest of his team. He did get unlucky in 19-20, but that itself is not evidence of elite defensive production (though to be fair it does help answer why some people think he's elite defensively even if his GA/60 was brutal).

To be clear, I didn't say he was bad defensively (seems to be middle of the pack perfectly ok tbh), I just wanted to know why someone could be considered elite defensively if they just put up the statline Marner did in 19-20. It's a bit odd, if a player who has never had an elite offensive season puts up a mediocre 30 points in 82 games, you wouldn't say he's elite offensively, context be damned, but people do this all the time when it comes to defensive production.

OTOH, wingers don't have much impact defensively, so being tied to the hip of the defensive black hole that is John Tavares may have something to do with it.



Honestly, it's the myth of the two way winger. Unless you're a HoF level player (ie Hossa), being a good defender on the wing is like being a good defender at 1st base. By far the least taxing defensive position.

I figured by now people would know how Marner plays.
I will keep it simple
red line in he plays like a possession play driving winger
red line back he plays like a puck retrieval center

Svetch is a great player but long term compares better to J.T or Nylander

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Heh. There arent 3 players on Carolina that would be worth one Marner

pretty brutal take. Players like Svechnikov, Aho, and Slavin are arguably equally or more valuable than Marner on their own. Let alone if you take those 3 combined

 

[Evincar]

Heh. There arent 3 players on Carolina that would be worth one Marner

Than why is Carolina the better team?