Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Brock Radunske]

Let's not get ahead of reality here, no Leafs has been past #3, since Sundin, who made it to 4.

Hopefully MB i UtS c Th M Ba Ur Sn Te r has a big year and can show the Leafs brass a little more next year. I think we needs to read between the lines a little with a player like him.





BUST

 

[Pilky01]

Anybody who expected (or even wanted) Marner on the Leafs probably doesn't really understand hockey.

So glad he is back in London...and good and early...I will be watching him next Sunday evening when the Knights visit Oshawa.

 

[Paradoc]

Marner needs 1 season in the OHL, and maybe 2 depending on how he does in training camp. Expect him to dominate OHL and WJC this year.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He was drafted with the understanding he would have to get stronger, and that is something he can actively work on.

He can't actively get bigger, see Giroux, he can hope, but it isn't necessary. Gretzky was 185 lbs.

For those who say it will take 2 years and those that say it won't take 2 years ...

Yeah, there's no need to set a time at all. He needs to get stronger, he needs to get more explosive.

I think the point that I tried to make is that those that say 2-3 years are doing it because they see development as somehow linear. He was far from an impact player in camp, therefor he needs tons of development. It just isn't necessarily like that, particularly when there's a physical development needed to get over a hurdle. Once that happens, the player will be able to utilize his skill like he couldn't before and you get an explosive development.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The sky is falling, Marner didn't make the team, he must be a bust......
Then when Marner finally makes the Leafs, he is a bottom 6 bc he is not scoring........
When Marner finally starts scoring, he does not play defense and a 200 ft game.
When Marner scores and plays 200 ft game, he is not in top 10 scoring and still too small bc he is being outplayed by Toews.
When Marner helps Leafs win the Cup, Nylander and Stamkos were the MVP...
When Marner retires and enter the Hall, he is still not better than Wendal and Dougie.

Sad but true. I especially enjoyed the last line, well done!

 

[Purity*]

Marner needs 1 season in the OHL, and maybe 2 depending on how he does in training camp. Expect him to dominate OHL and WJC this year.

I'm predicting 1 OHL season and then he makes the team rather easily.

 

[ColinO]

One additional consideration. An 18-year-old rookie that size is apt to get injured. Why would TO risk that. He's way better off in the O.

 

[Kubus]

I'm predicting 1 OHL season and then he makes the team rather easily.

I don't think Marner is that much more gifted than Nylander, and Nylander is having a hard time making the roster, this year, after playing against men all last year. If they keep Marner I think it will be because they don't see the benefit of him going back to the OHL, I don't think he makes it easily on to the roster next year. It appears like Babcock and Lou are going to take their time with our prospects.

 

[Trapper]

I'm predicting 1 OHL season and then he makes the team rather easily.

I predict when Mitch is ready and the Leafs think he's ready he will make the team.
Until then, he's doing fine in London. He's a good kid, lots of skill, will be a Leaf for a long time.

 

[Mess]

Marner needs 1 season in the OHL, and maybe 2 depending on how he does in training camp. Expect him to dominate OHL and WJC this year.

There is a level of uncertainty here.

Had Marner been lights out in camp, one of the last cuts and simply been sent back to junior to get physically stronger (like Kadri/Nylander previously) then it would be easier to predict next year he is a shoe-in, just get stronger.

However he was an early cut, particularly among top 10 picks. He already was a 2.0 PPG player last year so even if he duplicates the production that is the same as it was this camp.

He was demoted for more reasons than simply not physically ready based on his camp performance.

So I guess we will have to see and judge him next year when he shows up for camp and gauge him how he is physically and mentally and how he performs a year older and more experienced.

 

[Purity*]

There is a level of uncertainty here.

Had Marner been lights out in camp, one of the last cuts and simply been sent back to junior to get physically stronger (like Kadri/Nylander previously) then it would be easier to predict next year he is a shoe-in, just get stronger.

However he was an early cut, particularly among top 10 picks. He already was a 2.0 PPG player last year so even if he duplicates the production that is the same as it was this camp.

He was demoted for more reasons than simply not physically ready based on his camp performance.

So I guess we will have to see and judge him next year when he shows up for camp and gauge him how he is physically and mentally and how he performs a year older and more experienced.

Not physically ready and his first time ever playing against men.

He's gonna know exactly what to expect next year and hopefully comes with some much-needed added bulk (I'm really hoping he can get up to 185-190).

 

[ACC1224]

There is a level of uncertainty here.

Had Marner been lights out in camp, one of the last cuts and simply been sent back to junior to get physically stronger (like Kadri/Nylander previously) then it would be easier to predict next year he is a shoe-in, just get stronger.

However he was an early cut, particularly among top 10 picks. He already was a 2.0 PPG player last year so even if he duplicates the production that is the same as it was this camp.

He was demoted for more reasons than simply not physically ready based on his camp performance.

So I guess we will have to see and judge him next year when he shows up for camp and gauge him how he is physically and mentally and how he performs a year older and more experienced.

What were the reasons?

 

[Nithoniniel]

What were the reasons?

I actually think that's the gist of it. His physical disadvantage kind of put up a road block for his entire game. Everything I saw in his game that was not to like is connected to that.

 

[Kubus]

Not physically ready and his first time ever playing against men.

He's gonna know exactly what to expect next year and hopefully comes with some much-needed added bulk (I'm really hoping he can get up to 185-190).

That's fine and all, but we have been told by both Lou and Babcock that young players have to beat out vets to earn their spots. To be specific he has to beat out a player for the specific role, top 6 guy has to earn a top 6 spot. Add to this he will be competing for those spots with guys like Nylander, Kapanen, and Brown, and that task just got tougher. I think Nylander and Brown earn a spot on the roster before Marner does.


The one thing going for Marner, even if he is not totally ready for the NHL, is that he may be too good for the OHL.

 

[Mess]

Not physically ready and his first time ever playing against men.

He's gonna know exactly what to expect next year and hopefully comes with some much-needed added bulk (I'm really hoping he can get up to 185-190).

Marner is a human highlight-reel player in the OHL, explosive and dynamic, and a point producing machine. We didn't see any of that take you out of your seat moments that created buzz around his play. He didn't record any points and had just a few offensive moments with a nice pass or chance, but nothing more than we saw from Timashov.

We all knew/expected he would struggle physically based on where he is size wise, but something else seemed to be off. If someone didn't know he was a 2.0 PPG player last year you wouldn't based on his play in camp this year as expectation would have been higher impact as a top 5 pick overall. The timing is likely the more surprising aspect in that he didn't show more to deserve a longer look.

His stature shouldn't have effected his decision making or playmaking or confidence level as Marner claimed he didn't feel intimidated by bigger more physical players. No question he will go back and tear the cover off OHL scoring race, but we already know he is capable of that as he just did it.

Perhaps it was just nerves that got the best of him and that mentally effected him and next year that will no longer play as big a factor.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Given his age, what would be the buy-out penalty on his 3 year contract?

 

[hotpaws]

What were the reasons?

if you actually watched a game instead of living on here throwing out one liners maybe you would know

 

[Stephen]

Anybody who expected (or even wanted) Marner on the Leafs probably doesn't really understand hockey.

So glad he is back in London...and good and early...I will be watching him next Sunday evening when the Knights visit Oshawa.

I don't think you understand hockey.

When you're drafting top five in the NHL Entry Draft, what you want is to walk away with the a Dale Hawerchuk, Steve Yzerman, John Tavares, Ron Francis, Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane etc. who can hit the ground running from day one and be the cornerstone of your team, showing improvement every year on the road to stardom and Stanley Cup contention. It's as simple as that.

Barring those ideal results, teams will pick a player with some ratio of potential upside and NHL readiness. You pick a guy like Marner who is long on potential but short on maturity, you have to wait. You pick a guy like Luke Schenn who is physically mature but has no upside, then he makes the NHL early but has no room for growth.

But to suggest that an NHL team doesn't want an NHL ready impact player and would rather develop them slowly is a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes this league work.

 

[Morgs]

I don't think you understand hockey.

When you're drafting top five in the NHL Entry Draft, what you want is to walk away with the a Dale Hawerchuk, Steve Yzerman, John Tavares, Ron Francis, Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane etc. who can hit the ground running from day one and be the cornerstone of your team, showing improvement every year on the road to stardom and Stanley Cup contention. It's as simple as that.

Barring those ideal results, teams will pick a player with some ratio of potential upside and NHL readiness. You pick a guy like Marner who is long on potential but short on maturity, you have to wait. You pick a guy like Luke Schenn who is physically mature but has no upside, then he makes the NHL early but has no room for growth.

But to suggest that an NHL team doesn't want an NHL ready impact player and would rather develop them slowly is a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes this league work.

The fact you compared him to 4 #1OA picks and 2 #4OA picks show maybe you don't know as much about hockey as you claim. Not every great player immediately makes an impact. If another year in the OHL is what it takes for him to be the perennial all-star we all hope he is going to be, so be it. It's not like any of us is expecting this to be the season we turn everything around.

 

[Stephen]

The fact you compared him to 4 #1OA picks and 2 #4OA picks show maybe you don't know as much about hockey as you claim. Not every great player immediately makes an impact. If another year in the OHL is what it takes for him to be the perennial all-star we all hope he is going to be, so be it. It's not like any of us is expecting this to be the season we turn everything around.

Yzerman was a 4th overall, Ron Francis was a 4th overall and Marner put up offense comparable to first overall picks in some instances and was compared to Patrick Kane, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.

I don't dispute the rest of what you're saying and I'm pretty sure Marner will benefit tremendously in the OHL this year, but let's not pretend that the purpose of picking in the top 5 is to have a guy who isn't ready right away.

 

[Duffman955]

Not physically ready and his first time ever playing against men.

He's gonna know exactly what to expect next year and hopefully comes with some much-needed added bulk (I'm really hoping he can get up to 185-190).

Kadri was only 10 pounds heavier than marner in his first preaeason and it was his first time playing against men. Kadri dominated, marner didn't do Jack squat.

Its not just physical maturity, marner has quite a few other issues at this point.

Also putting on 30 pounds of muscle is nearly impossible for an ectomorph in a high demand sport

 

[Brock Radunske]

I think it was always in the plans to send him back down and I'm certain the Leafs brass isn't worried but I think we're all kidding ourselves if we don't think that the management team was disappointed with his training camp performance.
They were.
Mitch was
We were.
He's going to be an excellent player but he has a lot of work to do between now and next camp.

 

[Stephen]

Kadri was only 10 pounds heavier than marner in his first preaeason and it was his first time playing against men. Kadri dominated, marner didn't do Jack squat.

Its not just physical maturity, marner has quite a few other issues at this point.

Also putting on 30 pounds of muscle is nearly impossible for an ectomorph in a high demand sport

One of the issues I have is he seemed a little nervous and apologetic for his average rookie tournament and camp. For a 4th overall local kid potential franchise player, he's going to have to develop some major confidence to thrive in the situation he's in and not be timid. Because I think that's exactly the type of personality that does get eaten alive.

 

[Morgs]

Yzerman was a 4th overall, Ron Francis was a 4th overall and Marner put up offense comparable to first overall picks in some instances and was compared to Patrick Kane, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.

I don't dispute the rest of what you're saying and I'm pretty sure Marner will benefit tremendously in the OHL this year, but let's not pretend that the purpose of picking in the top 5 is to have a guy who isn't ready right away.

As I said "2 4OA picks" but yeah I know where you're coming from. To me though he was the third best player in the draft, and although it hasn't worked out yet it doesn't mean he hasn't or wont lived up to his draft number. But to be completely honest after watching him all last season, I really expected more in this training camp. Very glad he went back down though, it's what I wanted from the beginning.

 

[Brock Radunske]

As I said "2 4OA picks" but yeah I know where you're coming from. To me though he was the third best player in the draft, and although it hasn't worked out yet it doesn't mean he hasn't or wont lived up to his draft number. But to be completely honest after watching him all last season, I really expected more in this training camp. Very glad he went back down though, it's what I wanted from the beginning.

I would have been nice if he made the decision even a little bit difficult, though.