Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Rob Brown]

The thing about Marner for me is that he is noticeably out of his league strength wise right now.

He is nowhere near ready for the NHL.

Great hands, acceleration and awareness though.

I think it doesn't help that Nylander looks so good though lol. We all had Marner ahead of Nylander..

We all need to remember that Nylander has had an entire year over Marner since being drafted, which has helped immensely. It's better if we compare them Marner next season to Nylander this season.

 

[Anthrax442]

Nylander in last year's camp looked way better than Marner now.

 

[crump]

Nylander in last year's camp looked way better than Marner now.

I disagree. He had glimpses but looked overpowered as well. Nylander didn't look more comfortable until near the end of exhibition. This is Marners first NHL pro game ...albeit exhibition. If we must, let's compare their first pro camps by the end of it.

 

[SprDaVE]

We all need to remember that Nylander has had an entire year over Marner since being drafted, which has helped immensely. It's better if we compare them Marner next season to Nylander this season.

Not really. Prospects develop at different paces because they are different human beings and they will develop in different leagues/system.

We'll see how Marner progresses and how his strength conditioning goes.

Nylander in last year's camp looked way better than Marner now.

"Way better" is stretching it to exaggeration levels.

Nylander perhaps was a little more confident, but his experience level playing against grown men was prevalent in his first pre-season game, whereas this is Marners first real game against some NHL talent. Nylander also had a rough early game but we all saw glimpses of elite skill level despite a rough start. We saw Nylander struggle plenty in his first NHL pre-season stint.

It's not like Marner looked horribly bad. He just didn't stand out all that much. He didn't do any mistakes, he didn't explode offensively and he certainly wasn't invisible either.

Not trying to make excuses, but people expected the world of Marner in his pre-season game and I see a lot of people all ready sweating and thinking that we made the wrong choice, or at least that's how I read a lot of comments.

 

[Nithoniniel]

From what I could see, you saw his vision, technique, elusiveness, decision-making and work rate on display. The most surprising element of his game to falter at this level was puck handling, but that can be attributed to nerves.

Other than that, his problem stemmed from what is key at the NHL level. You need to be able to give yourself room, whether by utilizing your size or by creating space by skating. He wasn't quite fast enough to buy himself time, so he got opponents in tight and was mismatched in those physical duels.

His primary area of development should be lower body strength, for balance and explosiveness both. If he can develop that over the year, I think next year he'll create himself the chance to utilize his vast talent.

Those that remember all the discussions leading up to the draft know that I wasn't necessarily in the Marner camp until late, but what I have seen so far indicates a player that need a year more (and we knew this) to add a crucial part to his game before he can translate to the pro level.

 

[Rob Brown]

Not really. Prospects develop at different paces because they are different human beings and they will develop in different leagues/system.

We'll see how Marner progresses and how his strength conditioning goes.

Totally agree, I'm just saying it isn't totally fair to be comparing Marner to Nylander in this year's camp because Nylander has had an entire year over Marner when it comes to training, conditioning etc.

 

[ULF_55]

From what I could see, you saw his vision, technique, elusiveness, decision-making and work rate on display. The most surprising element of his game to falter at this level was puck handling, but that can be attributed to nerves.

Other than that, his problem stemmed from what is key at the NHL level. You need to be able to give yourself room, whether by utilizing your size or by creating space by skating. He wasn't quite fast enough to buy himself time, so he got opponents in tight and was mismatched in those physical duels.

His primary area of development should be lower body strength, for balance and explosiveness both. If he can develop that over the year, I think next year he'll create himself the chance to utilize his vast talent.

Those that remember all the discussions leading up to the draft know that I wasn't necessarily in the Marner camp until late, but what I have seen so far indicates a player that need a year more (and we knew this) to add a crucial part to his game before he can translate to the pro level.

He looked okay for a junior player going up against some senior players.

His physical aspects are a huge detriment to his game right now, and that is probably affecting him mentally.

No worries about burning a year of his ELC.

 

[Brock Radunske]

I have faith he'll end up being the player we all want him to be but right now he needs to head back to junior. He looked lost, out-matched and invisible for stretches of his time in the Rookie games and last night. He's 18. I get it, but still...
I also saw him with his head down a few times so I'm concerned an NHL defenseman is going to light him up...

 

[Mess]

The difference between drafting #1 or #2 and 4th overall is huge.

McDavid and Eichel are dominating in camp and challenging for top line center positions on their teams and Marner physical and mentally appears a year or more away from making the NHL at this point.

 

[Johny Drama]

Nylander in last year's camp looked way better than Marner now.

No he didn't. The skill was evident, but he looked over matched physically. Same thing with Marner this year. Other thing to consider, Nylander had been playing against men in Sweden, so he was a bit more used to it.

A year has made a big difference to Nylander and fully expect same thing with MM next year.

Bottom line, both look like very good talents and will be a huge part of our team in years to come.

 

[Ash35]

Marner looked really nervous during the first half. He's isn't ready. I just don't like him going back to juniors. He already knows how to play against boys. Playing against men at 18 helped Nylander for sure.

 

[Reddaye]

It's been a good taste for Mitch to get an idea of how the game feels at these higher levels. He clearly needs to get stronger, which is something most people felt when we drafted him. Now he's gotten some first hand experience without being thrown to the wolves.

Next year he'll be in the same position, but should notice a difference in his own strength level. He likely has an idea where the bar is, and that gives him something more tangible to reach for.

Lots of time to grow and put it all together. Looking forward to seeing his journey.

 

[ULF_55]

,

The difference between drafting #1 or #2 and 4th overall is huge.

McDavid and Eichel are dominating in camp and challenging for top line center positions on their teams and Marner physical and mentally appears a year or more away from making the NHL at this point.

Well, realistically everyone knew the gap was there, and even late their was some debate about McDavid versus Eichel, but Strome (who scored) and Marner were never a part of that.

Yes, size does matter, it is an asset, same as skating, intelligence, blah, blah, blah.

Marner should have a great year in London and hopefully get stronger. Getting faster would also help his cause.

As mentioned above, he isn't getting thrown to the wolves this year, he isn't close to that happening.

 

[meefer]

Don't know how to copy and paste a sentence from an entire post using this iPad thing, but Nithoniniel's first sentence resonates well with me. I was impressed with his anticipation and positioning when others were competing for the puck. Yes, strength is an issue. When it develops I believe we will have a gifted player to enjoy.

 

[Mess]

Well, realistically everyone knew the gap was there, and even late their was some debate about McDavid versus Eichel, but Strome (who scored) and Marner were never a part of that.

Yes, size does matter, it is an asset, same as skating, intelligence, blah, blah, blah.

Marner should have a great year in London and hopefully get stronger. Getting faster would also help his cause.

As mentioned above, he isn't getting thrown to the wolves this year, he isn't close to that happening.

Marner next year might look like Nylander of this year. The year of development has really help Willie and it will Mitch as well.

However it appears the starting points were different as Nylander was the star of his 1st rookie camp after his draft drawing rave reviews and only played in the first game of the tournament. Then he scored in the exhibition season and there was some talk early in camp last year that Nylander was pushing to stay with the team at 18, before he return to Sweden after camp closed. Marner has had far less of a first impression and impact his first camp and needs more time in the oven to cook in junior making it an easy decision for management.

The WJC stage will be one where we might get to see how much he has grown this year as Leaf fans are expecting him to dominate that tournament after tearing up the O this year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's undersized right now. Another year in London will be good for him.

 

[pspot]

to bad he can't play on the marlies but hopefully he can get enough out of these games and from the staff while he's there and then go develop and physically mature

one thing i was impressed with was his edge work.

 

[Ash35]

Don't cut him till the pre season is over no matter what. He needs this experience.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Don't cut him till the pre season is over no matter what. He needs this experience.

That's fine, but Babs needs to get him to keep his damn head up, especially with guys like Emelin flying around.

 

[ULF_55]

Don't cut him till the pre season is over no matter what. He needs this experience.

Merit, not draft position.

What would it say to everyone else in the organization if they were cut after outperforming someone kept because they were a higher pick?

Keep everyone who deserves to be kept, cut everyone who doesn't meet the standards.

 

[Mess]

Merit, not draft position.

What would it say to everyone else in the organization if they were cut after outperforming someone kept because they were a higher pick?

Keep everyone who deserves to be kept, cut everyone who doesn't meet the standards.

I think Timashov has outplayed Marner in camp where Leafs 5th round pick has had a bigger impact then the 4th overall.

Will be interesting to see if cuts are based on merit of play or draft position. If its performance driven Timo should last longer in camp.

Timo appears closer to Nylander then Marner in reaching the NHL at this stage based on just the early returns to date.

 

[ACC1224]

I think Timashov has outplayed Marner in camp where Leafs 5th round pick has had a bigger impact then the 4th overall.

Will be interesting to see if cuts are based on merit of play or draft position. If its performance driven Timo should last longer in camp.

Timo appears closer to Nylander then Marner in reaching the NHL at this stage based on just the early returns to date.

Possibly. What are you basing that on?

 

[burpsalot]

Right from the day of the draft management indicated he would be returning to the Knights. I think most reasonable fans concurred.

He's right on course & all the preseason experience has been bonus hockey for him.

 

[ULF_55]

I think Timashov has outplayed Marner in camp where Leafs 5th round pick has had a bigger impact then the 4th overall.

Will be interesting to see if cuts are based on merit of play or draft position. If its performance driven Timo should last longer in camp.

Timo appears closer to Nylander then Marner in reaching the NHL at this stage based on just the early returns to date.

I was expecting to see better skating from Marner. He might be agile, but he didn't look faster or quicker than his peers. Maybe it is the difference between playing against regular CHL players and the best CHL players along with AHL players? While there were many players on both teams who will be cut, they are still the best from junior, rather than average juniors.

Less space and time, but with another year to mature physically, and with some instruction from Underhill he should come back next year ready to compete.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He looked okay for a junior player going up against some senior players.

His physical aspects are a huge detriment to his game right now, and that is probably affecting him mentally.

No worries about burning a year of his ELC.

Indeed.

The difference between drafting #1 or #2 and 4th overall is huge.

McDavid and Eichel are dominating in camp and challenging for top line center positions on their teams and Marner physical and mentally appears a year or more away from making the NHL at this point.

You are of course correct, but it was also a year with an exceptional #1 and #2, plus that you have to consider types of prospect. Marner was always a guy that you looked at what he could be down the road. It was always obvious that he'd need at least a year more development.

In terms of prospect value, projection is what's most important. How close they are to being ready is a relatively minor aspect.