Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[Stephen]

You need to compare Marner's game to Nylander LAST year, not this year.
Last season at the rookie tournament Nylander was good, but didn't dominate. He looked a bit like a kid playing against men....very similar to what we saw this year from Marner. In both cases, you can see the potential both have.

I honestly think folk are being overly harsh on Marner. I thought he looked brilliant at the junior showcase and he played well at the rookie tournament. Its not so much how good he looks now, but how good he will be in another 3-4 years that's important.

Nylander was great against his rookie peers last year but looked overmatched in the real preseason games. Marner didn't have that immediate splash that we saw with Rielly and Nylander, who looked special among the kids right away.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think the fact that Nylander dominated the rookie camp the way he did raised our expectations of Marner, since a lot of people(not just fans on his board), did ranked Marner higher than Nylander before this camp. When Nylander played the way he did and Marner was not even close, it was disappointment.

Truth is, Marner might not played as well as Nylander, but he did alright.

As for Willie, from all the rookie games I watched so far, he is at another level and even better than McDavid. But it was such a small sample size of games.

 

[Stephen]

Just an aside, devil's advocate here because I LOVE Marner.

Seeing how good Nylander looks like he will be and Brown as well. Leipsic also looking promising, Kapanen and Bracco added to our system as well. Lots of high end, talented, small/average stature players.

You have to at least wonder if Noah Hanifin is what the Leafs should have taken. There is definitely an argument that he could be BPA at 4th or even more needed by the Leafs all things being equal between the two players ceiling wise.

Walking away with Hanifin or Marner would be considered a win in either case. You're just looking at different strengths. One is a physically mature, polished high end defensive prospect, the other is a raw, dominant junior scorer getting it done with a boy's body. I don't think the depth of forwards in the system makes Marner any less of a need. Outside of Nylander we didn't have that kind of forward. Now we have two.

 

[mikebel111*]

Walking away with Hanifin or Marner would be considered a win in either case. You're just looking at different strengths. One is a physically mature, polished high end defensive prospect, the other is a raw, dominant junior scorer getting it done with a boy's body. I don't think the depth of forwards in the system makes Marner any less of a need. Outside of Nylander we didn't have that kind of forward. Now we have two.

I agree. Honestly Marner was nervous 1st game but he wasnt bad. Second game he looked much better. Technically they are a pro game so makes sense why he was timid in 1st game

If I had to guess right now, I think Marner makes it tough for Leafs to send him down. Nylander I think makes the team but if not, doesnt say anything bad about him as a prospect.
This is clearly a rebuilding and managmenr knows this could be a long seaaon

 

[Gabriel426]

Would be funny if Leafs did drafted Hanifin, wonder will people here call him Luke Schenn 2.0 if he had an okay Rookie Tourney.

 

[NotSince67*]

But you are.

I watched him a little last year, so it's not like my opinion is solely is based off that. But he showed REALLY poorly given what would be expected of him based on those who came before him. Hopefully it's a case where he's trying to do a little too much because he's focused on trying to make the NHL club.

 

[Semantics]

I think the fact that Nylander dominated the rookie camp the way he did raised our expectations of Marner, since a lot of people(not just fans on his board), did ranked Marner higher than Nylander before this camp. When Nylander played the way he did and Marner was not even close, it was disappointment.

Truth is, Marner might not played as well as Nylander, but he did alright.

I think some people also don't know Marner's game yet. He's never been as flashy as Nylander and I don't think he ever will be. Nylander plays more of a big ice style, with more skating with the puck to stretch the defense and open up seams. Whereas Marner plays in traffic a bit more and is a bit more about making quick passes and reading where the puck is going to go. The 3rd game was a good example, Nylander looked more dominant but it was Marner who put up the two points by being a couple steps ahead of the defense. Could be one of those guys who's around the puck a lot but doesn't seem dominant, and then after the game you look at the scoresheet and he was involved in 3-4 goals.

 

[Woll Smoth]

I think some people also don't know Marner's game yet. He's never been as flashy as Nylander and I don't think he ever will be. Nylander plays more of a big ice style, with more skating with the puck to stretch the defense and open up seams. Whereas Marner plays in traffic a bit more and is a bit more about making quick passes and reading where the puck is going to go. The 3rd game was a good example, Nylander looked more dominant but it was Marner who put up the two points by being a couple steps ahead of the defense. Could be one of those guys who's around the puck a lot but doesn't seem dominant, and then after the game you look at the scoresheet and he was involved in 3-4 goals.

That last line sounds like Strome to me. Not that you were comparing them, but I found that Marner was much more noticeable than Strome and that's part of the reason I like Marner more as a prospect.

I think Marner is going to be dominant though, much more noticeable and someone you expect to drive a line. Give him a year or two, there is a big difference between a 17/18 year old and an 18/19 year old when it comes to development and expectations. And a huge difference when going up against players in their early 20s. A lot of players who participated in the tournament have a few years of AHL experience, and have an idea of what they need to bring to the pro game. Marner will have a much better showing next year.

 

[613Leafer]

Would be funny if Leafs did drafted Hanifin, wonder will people here call him Luke Schenn 2.0 if he had an okay Rookie Tourney.

Hanifin is a MUCH better prospect than Schenn was when he was drafted. Schenn was slow with limited puck moving abilities, Hanifin has all-around franchise dman potential.

 

[NotSince67*]

Hanifin is a MUCH better prospect than Schenn was when he was drafted. Schenn was slow with limited puck moving abilities, Hanifin has all-around franchise dman potential.

Some of that statement is just being jilted about what happened. He pretty much has shown little improvement from the day he broke into the league to the player he is now, certainly not any real significant improvement.

Imagine if he actually managed to get a little better every year. He wouldn't have turned out so disappointing in that case.

 

[Stephen]

How's Marner been playing in camp? Kind of interesting how interest has died down on him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

How's Marner been playing in camp? Kind of interesting how interest has died down on him.

It hasn't really died down, but I think people are just taking a wait and see approach, while also understanding he's likely a year off.

 

[Stephen]

It's almost better that he can develop quietly away from the limelight.

 

[Leafidelity]

It hasn't really died down, but I think people are just taking a wait and see approach, while also understanding he's likely a year off.

I think the elevated play of Nylander has helped him slip into the background a bit aswell.

 

[613Leafer]

Some of that statement is just being jilted about what happened. He pretty much has shown little improvement from the day he broke into the league to the player he is now, certainly not any real significant improvement.

Imagine if he actually managed to get a little better every year. He wouldn't have turned out so disappointing in that case.

Schenn wasnt a good skater nor was a good PMD when drafted. Even if he had improved, you're looking at getting a Chris Phillips type of defenceman instead of a Doughty, Subban, Keith, Weber, etc. The elite all-around potential didnt seem to be there, and it is with Hanifin.

I'm happy with Marner. Just saying that Hanifin is miles ahead of Schenn when comparing their draft pedigree.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's almost better that he can develop quietly away from the limelight.

It's the best situation for him. Plus he's getting great coaching in London and should likely go to the WJC as well.

This year combined with some work in the gym and work next off-season...I think he'll look like a brand new player.

I think the elevated play of Nylander has helped him slip into the background a bit aswell.

True enough

I always ask myself this "how would I do if I had to move to a big city at age 18, making a lot of money, and playing in a very tough league?" - It is likely very overwhelming for most 18 years olds, it takes a strong sense of maturity and mental development to make that jump successfully. Plus imagine if you stink it up and you feel like crap? You also then have people questioning you as a professional etc.

Keeping them in Jr or the AHL for a bit while they are developing is good and away from the scrutiny.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Just an aside, devil's advocate here because I LOVE Marner.

Seeing how good Nylander looks like he will be and Brown as well. Leipsic also looking promising, Kapanen and Bracco added to our system as well. Lots of high end, talented, small/average stature players.

You have to at least wonder if Noah Hanifin is what the Leafs should have taken. There is definitely an argument that he could be BPA at 4th or even more needed by the Leafs all things being equal between the two players ceiling wise.

I like Hanifin quite a bit, but a draft eligible player of Marner's calibre is more elusive than one of Hanifin's imo. When was the last time a 17 year old went 2 ppg in the CHL, while being the main offensive catalyst for their team? How many of these guys also accompany this with a great motor, and a competent defensive game? Clearly Mark Hunter sees something in Marner he doesn't see in Hanifin, or else we wouldn't have picked him.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's almost better that he can develop quietly away from the limelight.

I get the point, but that's sort of cheering for him to be worse instead of better.

I agree with the need for a patient approach, but seems like some people are taking it a bit too far these days, to the point that they're actually scared of a young player being good enough.

 

[Stephen]

I get the point, but that's sort of cheering for him to be worse instead of better.

I agree with the need for a patient approach, but seems like some people are taking it a bit too far these days, to the point that they're actually scared of a young player being good enough.

I would have been perfectly happy hearing that he was the second coming and ready to set the league on fire. I guess with his rookie camp performance we're looking at more of a Kyle Turris level of physical maturity and readiness than Patrick Kane, to use an oft used comparison.

 

[ULF_55]

How's Marner been playing in camp? Kind of interesting how interest has died down on him.

Only watched parts of the scrimmages but he didn't stand out.

I've seen highlights of McDavid, but just because you know there are highlights of McDavid.

Wasn't much talk about Marner from the prospects games either.

Maybe he'll do better with more structure, and without them being on the same ice, the gap between 1st. and 4th. seems huge.

 

[Community]

I think some people also don't know Marner's game yet. He's never been as flashy as Nylander and I don't think he ever will be. Nylander plays more of a big ice style, with more skating with the puck to stretch the defense and open up seams. Whereas Marner plays in traffic a bit more and is a bit more about making quick passes and reading where the puck is going to go. The 3rd game was a good example, Nylander looked more dominant but it was Marner who put up the two points by being a couple steps ahead of the defense. Could be one of those guys who's around the puck a lot but doesn't seem dominant, and then after the game you look at the scoresheet and he was involved in 3-4 goals.

This is one of the few times I actually really agree with you Although Marner is more of a flashy player than you give him credit for. Also, its the casual fans that don't notice Marner; real fans will notice how good he's been in a game and how flashy he really is. Look at rookie game #3, Marner got 2 points and was the 2nd star, yet all the talk was about Nylander's dirty goal when in reality Marner was a much better player that game and even had some nifty passes/dangles.

I think the fact that Nylander dominated the rookie camp the way he did raised our expectations of Marner, since a lot of people(not just fans on his board), did ranked Marner higher than Nylander before this camp. When Nylander played the way he did and Marner was not even close, it was disappointment.

Truth is, Marner might not played as well as Nylander, but he did alright.

As for Willie, from all the rookie games I watched so far, he is at another level and even better than McDavid. But it was such a small sample size of games.

I was at the 3rd rookie tourney game against the Pens and Marner was definitely better than Nylander.

Should also note that Marner is a class act as he came out to talk to a fan with a disability (as well as the other ~15 people that had stayed for 45 mins after the game) despite the fact that he was going out for dinner with his family. Other players did as well (such as Nylander), but mostly because they were using that exit whereas Marner did just because he heard the guy was waiting. Even told the rest of the people that he would sign autographs/do pictures in a few minutes, but wanted to talk to that fan first. Really glad we picked a guy that seems as genuine and nice as he does as well as ridiculously talented.


Edit: Also, the fact that you say he is on another level than McDavid is absolutely ridiculous... Even with the extra year of development that Nylander has, McDavid is currently a much better player and obviously in the future the difference will be night and day.

 

[Atomos2]

How's Marner been playing in camp? Kind of interesting how interest has died down on him.

Everyone who was all like, "he's as good as/better than Eichel", have all disappeared. Finally reality has set in for them and they realized hockey is played on the ice and not on the stats sheets.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Only watched parts of the scrimmages but he didn't stand out.

I've seen highlights of McDavid, but just because you know there are highlights of McDavid.

Wasn't much talk about Marner from the prospects games either.

Maybe he'll do better with more structure, and without them being on the same ice, the gap between 1st. and 4th. seems huge.

It was never fair to compare the likes of Strome, Marner, or Hanifin to Eichel and McDavid.

 

[ACC1224]

Everyone who was all like, "he's as good as/better than Eichel", have all disappeared. Finally reality has set in for them and they realized hockey is played on the ice and not on the stats sheets.

I don't think anyone said today he is better, some feel he projects to be better.

IMO, it doesn't matter who's better at 18 but who's better down the road.

 

[Morbo]

Nylander also has an extra year of growth over Marner too ... I'm interested to see how Marner looks a year from now, I'd expect him to take some big strides forward in physical development and become a better skater.

yeah this is a good point. The difference in Nylander physically between this year and last is dramatic.