Prospect Info: Marner Magic about to take OHL by kNight -All purpose thread

[theIceWookie]

You can never trust team sites for accurate measurements.It's even worse in the NBA where they measure a prospect in his shoes...I wonder when the NHL will start measuring prospects in their skates?...lol

This is such a common comment but it's based entiely on unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence.

Frankly I'm much more willing to accept NHL teams and what they say are measurements for their plaeyrs than people who think they know how tall another person is by looking at them in a picture or in person. Too many things make it easy to misjudge a persons height when you look at them or see them in a picture. It's pretty much nearly impossible to accurately judge a person's height in person.

So yeah I'll trust NHL team measurements 99 times out of 100 over some random poster on the internet who thinks that the measurements are some big consipracy to make a player look bigger (what does that even accomplish lol).

 

[LeafsNation75]

The first game he played center and struggled.

In the second game they moved him back to the wing and he looked a lot more comfortable back in the position he plays regularly.

Looking forward to see how he looks in camp now and in the exhibition games and where the Leafs play him and seeing if he can show off some of his magic. .

I say all the more reason why he needs to play next season in London so he can get better as a center.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I say all the more reason why he needs to play next season in London so he can get better as a center.

Looked nervous as hell the first game...timid...and in both games he was clearly at a disadvantage physically.

He made some passes that his linemates did not connect on or bobbled. He managed to put up 3 points regardless despite this disadvantage. Playing next year in Jr. is the smart move with him at this point.

 

[Stephen]

Marner looked so young and raw in the tournament, I felt a bit timid and scared watching him out there. He's got nothing but time in the world to mature but I definitely want to see him get a little bigger and evolve past this boyish stage in development. So far from that tiny glimpse he looked more like Kyle Turris in terms of NHL readiness than Patrick Kane at that age (not saying anything about his upside).

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner looked so young and raw in the tournament, I felt a bit timid and scared watching him out there. He's got nothing but time in the world to mature but I definitely want to see him get a little bigger and evolve past this boyish stage in development. So far from that tiny glimpse he looked more like Kyle Turris in terms of NHL readiness than Patrick Kane at that age (not saying anything about his upside).

That is a pretty good comparison in my opinion...also maybe Granlund? Talented but undersized.

 

[Mess]

Jonas Seigel TSN report on Marner and Nylander

The Leafs asked Marner where he wanted to play and while open to either position his preference was also in the middle. Like Nylander, his transition back to the position began this weekend and is likely to continue when he presumably rejoins the Knights for a third junior season.

Marner, though, doesn’t think he’ll start his NHL career at centre. “My first couple seasons, if I play in the NHL this year or next year, I think I’m probably going to play wing for the start and then develop back into a centreman, try and get a little stronger on the draws and stuff like that,†Marner said.

“You’ve got to take draws,†Marner said of the different responsibilities the position demands. “You have to get harder back in your zone. You have to play lower in your zone.“It’s more of a two-way game I think,†he added.

“Then it’s just work habits,†said Keefe, who coached the Leaf rookies in London. “It takes a lot of skating, a lot of work, a lot of good decisions on the ice – both with the puck and without the puck – so you’re looking to develop those kind of things.â€

Neither Marner nor Nylander has the size typically desired at the top of a centre ice depth chart, but the Leafs believe skill, speed and a knack for thinking the game will win over in the end. Still, the Leafs will push both to get stronger.

Marner, Hunter noted, could even see some time back on the wing this season when bigger opponents land on the docket. The Leafs want to get a sense of how the 18-year-old, generously listed at 5-foot-11 and nearly 170 pounds, acquits himself physically. “Mitch is not an overly big guy,†Hunter said. “He’s just got to get physically stronger to play a 200-foot game.â€

Strength down the middle is widely agreed to be key to Stanley Cup contention in today’s NHL, but the Leafs, fittingly among the worst teams in the league during the past decade, have generally been weak at the position. Nylander and Marner could, one day, help change that. The process has begun.

Full Story: http://www.tsn.ca/talent/leafs-grooming-nylander-marner-at-centre-1.359705

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Every NHL team should have the option to place 1 junior aged player in the AHL on an exception basis...it's silly really.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Keep in mind that Marner is one of the best skaters in the country in his age group and will only get better as he gets stronger.

Nylander has been working out and vastly improved his strength and conditioning over last year. There's no reason why Marner can't do the same thing.

Right now Nylander is on another level from most prospects in the league. He won't have any problem making the team out of camp and could easily replace Bozak as the #1 C in the lineup.

Marner is overall a good skater, I would not say he is Mcdavid or Hanifin in terms of skating speed. Or overall explosion.

He is more of a darting in and out, change of pace skater. When you couple that with his hockey IQ it leads to overall effectiveness.

I put Nylander right with Rielly as the Leafs best skaters. Both have explosion, change of pace, and what I call skate by you, skate through you ability. Not many prospects/players possess this quality.

This is the best way I can illustrate the differences in skaters.

Marner's cuts/agility are top notch. I would say Nylander has a small edge on skating though yes. Nylander's speed is actually pretty remarkable, he definitely has wheels.

I would agree with this. Skating is much more than just flat out speed. Marner uses lateral movement, stopping and starting more than sheer speed to beat you.

Nylander has the wheels as well as the lateral movement to beat you.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Nylander also has an extra year of growth over Marner too ... I'm interested to see how Marner looks a year from now, I'd expect him to take some big strides forward in physical development and become a better skater.

Nylander will give Marner some good motivation to work towards in terms of becoming a better player. Will be fun to watch them at the same time in training camp, especially in future years as they get better

 

[NotSince67*]

IMO, I've always felt Hanifin was the pick the Leafs should have made and so part of me will be happy as long as he outperforms Noah.

Having said that, from what I saw of Marner during the Rookie Tournament was VERY different from Marner int he OHL. Even Kadri (who was older at that point and had 3 OHL seasons of experience) and Reilly (he was kind of a good prospect) and Nylander were far more impactful than Marner.

Not to judge him off that two game sample but #1 if his adjustment to the RT was that significant, there is ZERO chance he plays in the NHL this year and unlikely next year, not that I thought it was very possible since he's not heavy enough at this point. Secondly, especially looking at what happened with Nazzy, seeing how a guy like Kyle Turris turned out, the idea Marner is some sure fire prospect to be the next Patrick Kane is more hype than reality. Truth of the matter is if it were that certain he'd have ousted Strome, and probably would have pushed Eichel for #2 consideration.

I think anyone who feels he's a sure thing is probably well ahead of themselves. His offensive skill is undeniable but there's a lot that happens in the next 5 years which determines whether he turns out to be a 60 point player or an 80 point player and it could turn out he doesn't adjust well and ends up a 35-40 point player, and don't act like it can't happen cause it happens all the time.

 

[Stephen]

Every NHL team should have the option to place 1 junior aged player in the AHL on an exception basis...it's silly really.

Disagree. It's a good rule to have to keep talent in the CHL so the younger kids coming up have good competition.

 

[Stephen]

IMO, I've always felt Hanifin was the pick the Leafs should have made and so part of me will be happy as long as he outperforms Noah.

Having said that, from what I saw of Marner during the Rookie Tournament was VERY different from Marner int he OHL. Even Kadri (who was older at that point and had 3 OHL seasons of experience) and Reilly (he was kind of a good prospect) and Nylander were far more impactful than Marner.

Not to judge him off that two game sample but #1 if his adjustment to the RT was that significant, there is ZERO chance he plays in the NHL this year and unlikely next year, not that I thought it was very possible since he's not heavy enough at this point. Secondly, especially looking at what happened with Nazzy, seeing how a guy like Kyle Turris turned out, the idea Marner is some sure fire prospect to be the next Patrick Kane is more hype than reality. Truth of the matter is if it were that certain he'd have ousted Strome, and probably would have pushed Eichel for #2 consideration.

I think anyone who feels he's a sure thing is probably well ahead of themselves. His offensive skill is undeniable but there's a lot that happens in the next 5 years which determines whether he turns out to be a 60 point player or an 80 point player and it could turn out he doesn't adjust well and ends up a 35-40 point player, and don't act like it can't happen cause it happens all the time.

I don't want to turn this into a Hanifin vs Marner thing, but it's a lot easier to have the more polished physical player and feel confident in your pick.

And you're right. Nylander and Rielly seemed to show a little bit more oomph in the rookie tournament. Marner's showing thus far has been a little underwhelming. Didn't like that he was nervous. For his size, he needs to have a lot of swagger and be running circles around the bigger players, like a Gaudreau. Seems a little rawer than we had thought. But maybe he's a slow starter switching from summer mode to hockey season?

 

[Macman]

Disagree. It's a good rule to have to keep talent in the CHL so the younger kids coming up have good competition.

Yup. You can't siphon the best talent out of the CHL and expect it to continue being the top producer of NHL talent. People who argue otherwise aren't seeing the big picture. It won't hurt Marner a bit to spend another year in the CHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't want to turn this into a Hanifin vs Marner thing, but it's a lot easier to have the more polished physical player and feel confident in your pick.

And you're right. Nylander and Rielly seemed to show a little bit more oomph in the rookie tournament. Marner's showing thus far has been a little underwhelming. Didn't like that he was nervous. For his size, he needs to have a lot of swagger and be running circles around the bigger players, like a Gaudreau. Seems a little rawer than we had thought. But maybe he's a slow starter switching from summer mode to hockey season?

I agree, I too recall Nylander and Rielly making bigger impacts than Marner in their rookie tournaments. I am not exactly sure why, it isn't size, but Marner seems a little more raw as a prospect. He looked better in his second game when he played on the wing as opposed to Center. Maybe that had something to do with it. But at this point, it sure looks like he is going back to London. Unless he shows more oomph as you put it.

 

[RoyalGremlin]

I think Marner just needs smarter and better players on his line. Even though the majority of the players in the tournament were of better quality than the OHL, the majority of them won't ever make the NHL and are thinking of themselves a little more than the team. Maybe Marner ends up with crazy chemistry with JVR or on Kadri's wing and excels in the preseason, earning a few games before goin back to London. I doubt he will be here for the full season but I would love to give him some games.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think Marner just needs smarter and better players on his line. Even though the majority of the players in the tournament were of better quality than the OHL, the majority of them won't ever make the NHL and are thinking of themselves a little more than the team. Maybe Marner ends up with crazy chemistry with JVR or on Kadri's wing and excels in the preseason, earning a few games before goin back to London. I doubt he will be here for the full season but I would love to give him some games.

Personally I rather see Marner play in the OHL as soon as possible for this reason. Let's say he has a great pre-season and earned a look before he possibly plays a 10th game in the NHL, however the Leafs start off with a 0-7-0 record. Is being in a losing environment the best for him?

 

[mallory67]

I agree, I too recall Nylander and Rielly making bigger impacts than Marner in their rookie tournaments. I am not exactly sure why, it isn't size, but Marner seems a little more raw as a prospect. He looked better in his second game when he played on the wing as opposed to Center. Maybe that had something to do with it. But at this point, it sure looks like he is going back to London. Unless he shows more oomph as you put it.

I thought Marner was very good. He tried some really amazing pass plays that were fumbled on the other end. He showed a constant motor and good creativity. But as an 18 year old playing with guys that are 21+ I think there is an adjustment period.

Players like Marner continually adjust at each level and I think you saw that adjustment by his second game. He could had 2 goals and 2 assists.

He was outshone by Nylander but Nylander has been playing against men for a long while now in the SHL and the AHL. I really wish Marner could be shifted to the AHL to accelerate his progress.

 

[burpsalot]

IMO, I've always felt Hanifin was the pick the Leafs should have made and so part of me will be happy as long as he outperforms Noah.

Having said that, from what I saw of Marner during the Rookie Tournament was VERY different from Marner int he OHL. Even Kadri (who was older at that point and had 3 OHL seasons of experience) and Reilly (he was kind of a good prospect) and Nylander were far more impactful than Marner.

Not to judge him off that two game sample but #1 if his adjustment to the RT was that significant, there is ZERO chance he plays in the NHL this year and unlikely next year, not that I thought it was very possible since he's not heavy enough at this point. Secondly, especially looking at what happened with Nazzy, seeing how a guy like Kyle Turris turned out, the idea Marner is some sure fire prospect to be the next Patrick Kane is more hype than reality. Truth of the matter is if it were that certain he'd have ousted Strome, and probably would have pushed Eichel for #2 consideration.

I think anyone who feels he's a sure thing is probably well ahead of themselves. His offensive skill is undeniable but there's a lot that happens in the next 5 years which determines whether he turns out to be a 60 point player or an 80 point player and it could turn out he doesn't adjust well and ends up a 35-40 point player, and don't act like it can't happen cause it happens all the time.

But you are.

 

[Mess]

Every NHL team should have the option to place 1 junior aged player in the AHL on an exception basis...it's silly really.

Why change the rules to accommodate the player(s)?

If Marner is deemed too good for the OHL but not good enough for the NHL isn't that a player issue not a system problem?

Its up to Marner to make the Leafs keep him in the NHL based on his play not to apply for a rules change to make special exceptions for the few. IMO

 

[Guy Boucher]

Why change the rules to accommodate the player(s)?

If Marner is deemed too good for the OHL but not good enough for the NHL isn't that a player issue not a system problem?

Its up to Marner to make the Leafs keep him in the NHL based on his play not to apply for a rules change to make special exceptions for the few. IMO

Or he can go to Europe I guess.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I don't want to turn this into a Hanifin vs Marner thing, but it's a lot easier to have the more polished physical player and feel confident in your pick.

And you're right. Nylander and Rielly seemed to show a little bit more oomph in the rookie tournament. Marner's showing thus far has been a little underwhelming. Didn't like that he was nervous. For his size, he needs to have a lot of swagger and be running circles around the bigger players, like a Gaudreau. Seems a little rawer than we had thought. But maybe he's a slow starter switching from summer mode to hockey season?

I'm not worried about it. Just like we shouldnt have gotten overly excited about his exceptional showing at the Team Canada camp, we shouldn't get overly worried about a modest showing at the rookie tournament.

 

[Johny Drama]

I don't want to turn this into a Hanifin vs Marner thing, but it's a lot easier to have the more polished physical player and feel confident in your pick.

And you're right. Nylander and Rielly seemed to show a little bit more oomph in the rookie tournament. Marner's showing thus far has been a little underwhelming. Didn't like that he was nervous. For his size, he needs to have a lot of swagger and be running circles around the bigger players, like a Gaudreau. Seems a little rawer than we had thought. But maybe he's a slow starter switching from summer mode to hockey season?

You need to compare Marner's game to Nylander LAST year, not this year.
Last season at the rookie tournament Nylander was good, but didn't dominate. He looked a bit like a kid playing against men....very similar to what we saw this year from Marner. In both cases, you can see the potential both have.

I honestly think folk are being overly harsh on Marner. I thought he looked brilliant at the junior showcase and he played well at the rookie tournament. Its not so much how good he looks now, but how good he will be in another 3-4 years that's important.

 

[RoyalGremlin]

Personally I rather see Marner play in the OHL as soon as possible for this reason. Let's say he has a great pre-season and earned a look before he possibly plays a 10th game in the NHL, however the Leafs start off with a 0-7-0 record. Is being in a losing environment the best for him?

Losing environment or not, if the leafs are straightforward and honest with him, telling him he's getting 9 games and then being sent down, it wouldn't hurt Marner in the slightest, he's got great character and confidence in Management. So really it's about giving him a taste and feel for the NHL level before sending him down so he can see/play/experience the discrepancy and understand what moves won't work/will work in the NHL and adjust his skill set to develop.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Losing environment or not, if the leafs are straightforward and honest with him, telling him he's getting 9 games and then being sent down, it wouldn't hurt Marner in the slightest, he's got great character and confidence in Management. So really it's about giving him a taste and feel for the NHL level before sending him down so he can see/play/experience the discrepancy and understand what moves won't work/will work in the NHL and adjust his skill set to develop.

Does Lou have a history of giving 1st round picks the 9 games and then sending them back to their junior team? I know that Adam Larsson made the Devils roster during the 2011-2012 season after being drafted 4th overall in 2011. However I can't think of any other players he drafted that made it so fast or was at least given the 9 game look.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Just an aside, devil's advocate here because I LOVE Marner.

Seeing how good Nylander looks like he will be and Brown as well. Leipsic also looking promising, Kapanen and Bracco added to our system as well. Lots of high end, talented, small/average stature players.

You have to at least wonder if Noah Hanifin is what the Leafs should have taken. There is definitely an argument that he could be BPA at 4th or even more needed by the Leafs all things being equal between the two players ceiling wise.