Marner haters right now

[ToneDog]

Think you got that reversed. Try watching the games.

3 goals (1 EN) and 9 assists. What has changed ? Who's goals is he assisting on the last few games ?

Sure he has had many more scoring chances but he is only going to accumulate points if his linemates put the puck in the net. Not sure what you are seeing that I am not.

 

[Zybalto]

Apologists point out to the Leaf's hot streak and his numbers right now, but the skeptics among us will say we've seen it all before.

But last night Marner showed that he still hasn't learned, and neither has this team. Up 4-1, win looking pretty solid, Mitch finds himself leading a 3-on-2. Instead of making a safe play - a shot, a "safe" pass behind defenders - he finds Sandin inexplicably joining the rush and decides to pass to him. Rasmus, instead of immediately shooting or passing off and dropping back, holds on and waits for a better angle. The shot is blocked and the Bruins race back up the ice.

Bruins start pressing the action and what looked like a pretty easy win overall almost became a nail-biter.

This is what this team has done over and over, year after year. It's the same lesson they seem incapable of learning or, maybe Keefe just isn't pointing it out to them at all? In any case, until they change that mindset, from "lets shut this game down and take the win versus padding our stats by playing pond hockey" they are not going to ever sniff a Cup final.

So yay, the big 3 had a big night, great for them. There's never been any doubt they are regular season studs. But wake me up when they give me any reason to believe they are any different/better from the other failed teams that past 5 years.

So young Sandin made a mistake by not shooting the puck for the one timer with traffic in front like he should have (which the coach probably told him when he got to the bench) and thats not only on Marner but the rest of the stars as well?

I love how this is unironically going to turn into another Marner bashing thread....becoming a description of the title of the thread is almost too perfect.

 

[notbias]

Nobody doubts that Marner will go out and get his 90+ points like clockwork. But many people doubt that he and the other two 11 million dollar boys will show up when it counts.

Matthews was our best player the last two series

 

[NinjaKick]

redemption

 

[TMLAM34]

Glad to see Marner playing well again. But due to cap purposes, I’d still explore the option of trading him in the off-season.

 

[LeafGrief]

Having posted numerous litanies in both defense and criticism of Marner, I am not sure if I qualify as a hater. It sure is good to see him playing well again, but I think few people are actually surprised that a superstar talent is able to produce big games in the regular season.

For me and I think most of us tbh, the only thing that matters for Marner and the Leafs is if they can do it in the playoffs. Marner playing great regular season hockey is fun to watch and will surely help the Leafs make the dance, but his chance to truly slay the demons is still a long way away.

 

[Notsince67]

3 goals (1 EN) and 9 assists. What has changed ? Who's goals is he assisting on the last few games ?

Sure he has had many more scoring chances but he is only going to accumulate points if his linemates put the puck in the net. Not sure what you are seeing that I am not.

Did you see the goal that went off JT's foot from Marners shot?
Did you see who drove the crazy plays?
I'd guess no.
It is baffling to me that you feel so confident to put up this bullshit unless you did not watch the games and are doing so in ignorance.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Having posted numerous litanies in both defense and criticism of Marner, I am not sure if I qualify as a hater. It sure is good to see him playing well again, but I think few people are actually surprised that a superstar talent is able to produce big games in the regular season.

For me and I think most of us tbh, the only thing that matters for Marner and the Leafs is if they can do it in the playoffs. Marner playing great regular season hockey is fun to watch and will surely help the Leafs make the dance, but his chance to truly slay the demons is still a long way away.

Perfect summary IMO. This whole thread is stupid, Marner putting up some points in a few regular season games is 100% expected and would only be noteworthy if it didn't happen. Acting as if the big picture has changed is just dumb, gotta wait for the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Did you see the goal that went off JT's foot from Marners shot?
Did you see who drove the crazy plays?
I'd guess no.
It is baffling to me that you feel so confident to put up this bullshit unless you did not watch the games and are doing so in ignorance.

Lol. I think/know you might be too sensitive when it comes to marner. It is actually embarrassing. I did not rip him and here you are attacking me.
Sure he would have scored that goal but he still gets the majority of his points on assists because he has no shot.

 

[Notsince67]

Lol. I think/know you might be too sensitive when it comes to marner. It is actually embarrassing. I did not rip him and here you are attacking me.
Sure he would have scored that goal but he still gets the majority of his points on assists because he has no shot.

Saying that his production is the result of Matthew's and JT is a joke. Nothing is further from the truth the last few games. I'm just calling out your bullshit that is obvious to anyone who watched.

 

[ToneDog]

Saying that his production is the result of Matthew's and JT is a joke. Nothing is further from the truth the last few games. I'm just calling out your bullshit that is obvious to anyone who watched.

I am talking point production. I said his play has picked which is clear but if nobody finishes his point production will suffer. Pretty much fact. We saw that in the playoffs. No bullshit on my part.

 

[Stephen]

Extremely happy with the past five games or so, but would love to revisit this eating crow topic after Marner and the Leafs have advanced past the first, second, third or fourth rounds. Regular season points festivals are supposed to happen, right?

 

[Super Mega]

Best #16s in Maple Leafs (revisionist) History

Nikolai Borschevsky
Russ Courtnall
Clarke MacArthur
Mitchell Marner

Tuckahshi68

Blog about it. huang huang huang

Courtnal was #9. Eddie O should be on that list tho

 

[Super Mega]

I think it's tougher for a guy like marner to really impose himself on a game like a McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Matthews etc. Because he is reliant on others to be effective.

That's not saying he rides coat tails at all he just needs good players to make plays too. If he can start getting inside more and playing more like Brayden Point, creating by himself inside (his 2nd goal) he can become a more complete player.

That's my issue with him, he isn't yet a guy who can take over a game on his own. I have faith he can get there, the question is more can we afford his cap hit while he figures it out. he got his money too early, wait until he actually arrives and needs his extension..

That said loved his game in Boston, and I like him more with JT. Again I think he benefits a lot from JT as much as JT benefits from Marner.

 

[Trapper]

Extremely happy with the past five games or so, but would love to revisit this eating crow topic after Marner and the Leafs have advanced past the first, second, third or fourth rounds. Regular season points festivals are supposed to happen, right?

It’s not just advancing or not depending on game play.
If we advance past the first round because Campbell is lights out and Spezza goes Gretzky in a series doesn’t tell the whole story.

If we fail the first round but the core was in there playing hard, forechecking, in your face, again, that’s a different story.

The bottom line concerning “haters”, I don’t believe the core is built for the playoffs and the money spent on them also takes away the depth I believe you need to survive 4 rounds. Now this is my real issue. If someone wants to disagree fine. When it comes time to make a move, if course an 11 million dollar player is going to be front and center.

 

[Gallagbi]

I am talking point production. I said his play has picked which is clear but if nobody finishes his point production will suffer. Pretty much fact. We saw that in the playoffs. No bullshit on my part.

I think the big problem over the last two playoffs has been lack of creating chances by him, not lack of finish for his linemates. He's generated some offense but not nearly enough.

I get what you're trying to say, but Marner can be an elite playmaker and elevate those around him to the point where they're getting better, cleaner looks which ultimately leads to more goals. We've seen that with pretty much every lines he's played on.

 

[IPS]

Nobody doubts that Marner will go out and get his 90+ points like clockwork. But many people doubt that he and the other two 11 million dollar boys will show up when it counts.

That's what kind of sucks about it all. It doesn't mean crap until they actually prove it in the playoffs. No amount of regular season production Mitch puts up will make up for his playoff duds the last 2 years.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Marner playing well at this point just means he'll return more when he's eventually traded. The other 3 of the 4 forwards aren't being moved for various reasons.

 

[Racer88]

Extremely happy with the past five games or so, but would love to revisit this eating crow topic after Marner and the Leafs have advanced past the first, second, third or fourth rounds. Regular season points festivals are supposed to happen, right?

So true

 

[Stephen]

It’s not just advancing or not depending on game play.
If we advance past the first round because Campbell is lights out and Spezza goes Gretzky in a series doesn’t tell the whole story.

If we fail the first round but the core was in there playing hard, forechecking, in your face, again, that’s a different story.

The bottom line concerning “haters”, I don’t believe the core is built for the playoffs and the money spent on them also takes away the depth I believe you need to survive 4 rounds. Now this is my real issue. If someone wants to disagree fine. When it comes time to make a move, if course an 11 million dollar player is going to be front and center.

For me, it’s the same exercise as last years cruise control division win. How well is the team and big guns including Marner ramping up and showing good “championship” habits while getting to the starting block in the first round?

Last night’s effort vs Boston and the full 60 vs Vegas are great benchmarks for how they should play. So if Marner is hitting those high effort games, creating offense in tough situations they’re positive signs. But we still won’t know until we get to the playoffs.

The other thing too is Marner or whomever can stink up the first round but if the Leafs find a way to advance and they can find their sea legs. That’s also acceptable to me. But the playoffs are a long way away.

 

[Sniper99]

I'm patiently waiting for him to show up in the playoffs..how's that??

I'm waiting for the whole TEAM to show up for a full round in the playoffs. Not just the first 4 games.

Where are the Marner haters at?

This winning streak will come to and end soon and they'll be in that 1st PGT that pops up here.

 

[Acesup]

JT and Marner have incredible chemistry and feed off each other. Leave it to our idiot coach for breaking what was fixed.

 

[Zybalto]

I think the big problem over the last two playoffs has been lack of creating chances by him, not lack of finish for his linemates. He's generated some offense but not nearly enough.

I get what you're trying to say, but Marner can be an elite playmaker and elevate those around him to the point where they're getting better, cleaner looks which ultimately leads to more goals. We've seen that with pretty much every lines he's played on.

Just thought I'd throw up a fun list of the players who created the most offensive chances the last 2 playoffs. I dont think you are giving the insane goaltending streaks both Columbus and Montreal went on enough credit.

2020 play-ins rankings of all forwards (319 total):
Shots created while on the ice:
1. Tavares
2. Matthews
3. Forsberg
4. Marner
5. Nylander

Most scoring chances created while on the ice:
1. Matthews
2. Tavares
3. Marner
4. Geuntzel
5. McDavid

Most high danger chances created while on the ice:
1. Draisaitl
2. McDavid
3. Nugent-Hopkins
4. Tavares
5. Marner

Highest Expected goals for the round:
1. Guentzel
2. McDavid
3. Draisaitl
4. Nugent-Hopkins
5. Crosby
6. Matthews
7. Marner

2021 first round rankings of all forwards (200+):
Shots created while on the ice:
1. Matthews
2. Barkov
3. Marner
4. Hymen
5. Huberdeau

Most scoring chances created while on the ice:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Hymen
4. Huberdeau
5. Barkov

Most high danger chances created while on the ice:
1. Barkov
2. Matthews
3. McDavid
4. Marner
5. Hymen

Highest Expected goals for the round:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Hymen
4. Barkov
5. Huberdeau

Note that almost every player here failed to advance due to a goaltending difference between the teams as well as, certainly in the Leafs case, a lack of finish. Just go and rewatch the series with the Habs. Posts, near misses and big saves against all day.

 

[Zybalto]

JT and Marner have incredible chemistry and feed off each other. Leave it to our idiot coach for breaking what was fixed.

Matthews and Marner together have been an absolute force and have roughly the same effectiveness as the Marchand/Bergeron/Pasta line since they have been put together. I think the change was just to shake things up and get Tavares going as much as anything. In the end all four are interchangeable and gives the coach a ton of options.

 

[Bluelines]

Matthews & Marner both produced fine in the playoffs under Babcock. It’s not their fault they have a coach who doesn’t line match or switch lines when something isn’t working. In the 2 Boston series Chara/Bergeron matchups were able to shut down one of 34 or 16 but the other one went off

Conceptually there should be 3 lines that drive the play, Matthews - Tavares - McCann , Willie would play on McCann's line, Mitch on Tavares line, three lines the other team has to check vs loading up one line with Austin- Tavares- Marner and neutering the other 3... is it easier to shut down one line or 3?