Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion

[Notsince67]

One shot in 3 games. One friggin shot in three games of a Stanley Cup playoff series. You think that’s good enough?

High danger Corsi let’s see, a shot that can’t beat an NHL goalie, a shot that bounces around shin pads is a good stat to rest your claim. Lol. Anyone who understands the game quickly realizes it’s a flyby stat. Watch a game. Your eyes should tell you that high danger corsi meant exactly zero.

Obscure stats: where you can sort, filter or manipulate until your agenda is matched.

Why are you lying? You make is sound he fell apart.
Game 7 there were 5 sog

Game 5 the leafs won anyway. You your contention is the leafs lost game 4 and 6 because of Marner.
What a joke
Game1 5 shots won
Game2 3 shots lost
Game3 5 shots won
Game4 1 Shot lost
Game5 0 shots won (had 5 takeaways...led the team) Hyman tripped and injured ACL
Game 6 0 shots lost
Game 7 5 shots lost

 

[HoweHullOrr]

We have to ensure that at any point in time the aggregate contracts we have signed for 2020 don’t put us over, but outside of that if we needed to carry those bonuses over it wouldn’t be a big deal with Marleau coming off the books. I don’t think we should suppress the kids because we’re afraid they’ll play well. They are actually exactly what we need if possible.

That said, I think it’s highly unlikely they hit any material bonuses.

Ya, definitely not stating or recommending they don't play. It would be great if they can.

We definitely have more cap room the year after next, but I don't know what they plan on spending it on. Do you think they might spend some money on something?

Just saying there could be some bonus money paid, not that this is a problem.

 

[MLSE]

If I’m reading this correctly, we’ve a few people here who are debating the issue of Marner vs Tavares and who is more responsible for their respective successful year? Really? I’m glad we’ve got them both. Carry on.

It's not about being happy about having both. Their both awesome and it's great to have them both but you're in a thread about Marner and how good he is. When someone says it's all Tavares and it's clearly not true give how good he has been for 150 games, you have to defend that. No?

 

[meefer]

It's not about being happy about having both. Their both awesome and it's great to have them both but you're in a thread about Marner and how good he is. When someone says it's all Tavares and it's clearly not true give how good he has been for 150 games, you have to defend that. No?

I try, though not always successfully , to not get bogged down in those conversations. Nobody wins and it becomes a p*ssing match. They’re both very good and I’m glad they’re Leafs.

 

[MLSE]

I try, though not always successfully , to not get bogged down in those conversations. Nobody wins and it becomes a p*ssing match. They’re both very good and I’m glad they’re Leafs.

It's really not a debate.

1) Tavares is awesome.

2) Marner put up the same P/60 his last 75 games before he played with Tavares.

However I slightly agree, it doesn't really matter about Tavares. It's more about what we will be paying Marner.

 

[pspot]

could the leafs sign Marner to 1 year 6 million and then 8 years 88 after that ? do they retain his RFA rights if they resign for one year or as soon as he resigns he's UFA after that?
Marner bearing all the risk if he's hurt though

 

[CDN24]

could the leafs sign Marner to 1 year 6 million and then 8 years 88 after that ? do they retain his RFA rights if they resign for one year or as soon as he resigns he's UFA after that?
Marner bearing all the risk if he's hurt though

They can, but cannot extend until Jan 1 2020 if they sign for one year. Will Marner take the risk of a career ending injury between October and Jan 1st?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

They can, but cannot extend until Jan 1 2020 if they sign for one year. Will Marner take the risk of a career ending injury between October and Jan 1st?

Not a chance in hell Mitch does this move. He has already sacrificed his ELC performance bonuses to team already.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

They can, but cannot extend until Jan 1 2020 if they sign for one year. Will Marner take the risk of a career ending injury between October and Jan 1st?

I expect he wouldn't, which makes no sense whatsoever because he literally just played an entire season risking a career-ending injury. But I think he/his agent/his dad would refuse if asked to do it for a couple mire months - just a gut feeling.

And to answer the previous poster's question, he would still be an RFA.

 

[ACC1224]

I expect he wouldn't, which makes no sense whatsoever because he literally just played an entire season risking a career-ending injury. But I think he/his agent/his dad would refuse if asked to do it for a couple mire months - just a gut feeling.

And to answer the previous poster's question, he would still be an RFA.

Not only an injury. What happens if he gets off to a really slow start? Team would still hand over all that money?

Makes no sense at all for the player.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Basically you're trying to argue you can't use can't any comparable's when trying trying to evaluate a players contract , do you realize how big a GM fan boi that makes you look like ?

and just so you understand , blindly following the gm who is just another employee doesn't mean you're supporting the team

people who support the team wants want best for the team and don't spin themselves stupid trying to defend an incompetent employee

Yeah, real fans like you just hate everyone involved in the team.

You are purposly using comparables with 8 year contracts. How can you prove in any way how much a UFA year is worth ? any evidence at all ?

 

[18leafsfan18]

You think Matthews is worth significantly more than McDavid?

He makes less then McDavid.

You and other posters say he makes more based on term, with absolutely no evidence to what a UFA year costs.

Show some evidence and I can agree with you. Pull numbers out of thin air and I can't.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I bet you those teams had at least 1 defenseman in their top 4 players.

We are going with all 4 forwards.

This has never been done before.

This is not what was being argued.

The argument was that no team has this much money locked into 4 players.

 

[Leafsfan13]

He makes less then McDavid.

You and other posters say he makes more based on term, with absolutely no evidence to what a UFA year costs.

Show some evidence and I can agree with you. Pull numbers out of thin air and I can't.

Matthews has the best contract in the league.

 

[Buds17]

He makes less then McDavid.

You and other posters say he makes more based on term, with absolutely no evidence to what a UFA year costs.

Show some evidence and I can agree with you. Pull numbers out of thin air and I can't.

McDavid's contract is 12.5 M x 8. Matthews' contract is 11.634 M x 5. If Dubas could've signed Matthews for three more years for, or less than, 866 K in total, I don't see why he wouldn't have.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Matthews has the best contract in the league.

Not saying that either, but random posters on here say he is overpaid 3 mil AAV.

No evidence or comparables (just pull numbers from nowhere).

 

[18leafsfan18]

McDavid's contract is 12.5 M x 8. Matthews' contract is 11.634 M x 5. If Dubas could've signed Matthews for three more years for, or less than, 834 K in total, I don't see why he wouldn't have.

He obviously couldn't.

I'm not sure about what your point is here ?

How does that prove the UFA years are worth 3 mil AAV ?

 

[Buds17]

He obviously couldn't.

I'm not sure about what your point is here ?

How does that prove the UFA years are worth 3 mil AAV ?

Matthews makes more than McDavid based on term. Matthews wouldn't come in at, or less than, 12.5 M on an eight year contract. McDavid wouldn't figure to come in at, or more than, 11.634 M on a five year contract.

Where does the 3M AAV come from?

 

[Notsince67]

He makes less then McDavid.

You and other posters say he makes more based on term, with absolutely no evidence to what a UFA year costs.

Show some evidence and I can agree with you. Pull numbers out of thin air and I can't.

Are u serious?

 

[18leafsfan18]

Matthews makes more than McDavid based on term. Matthews wouldn't come in at, or less than, 12.5 M on an eight year contract. McDavid wouldn't figure to come in at, or more than, 11.634 M on a five year contract.

Where does the 3M AAV come from?

Are u serious?

I don't know what posters were saying it but when his contract was announced there were multiple posters saying he is over paid by 3 mil, others saying 1 mil.

All I'm pointing out is there is no way to justify how much he is over paid (or if he is even overpaid).

For every argument that people have one way there are arguments the other way.

His cap hit is all that matters for the team adding players, and his cap hit is right where it should be (between McDavid and Eichel).

 

[Notsince67]

I don't know what posters were saying it but when his contract was announced there were multiple posters saying he is over paid by 3 mil, others saying 1 mil.

All I'm pointing out is there is no way to justify how much he is over paid (or if he is even overpaid).

For every argument that people have one way there are arguments the other way.

His cap hit is all that matters for the team adding players, and his cap hit is right where it should be (between McDavid and Eichel).

The 3mm is likely the comparison to Stamkos. Everyone compares Marner to kucherov contract so it is fair game. 3mm doesnt account for term.

 

[18leafsfan18]

The 3mm is likely the comparison to Stamkos. Everyone compares Marner to kucherov contract so it is fair game. 3mm doesnt account for term.

It's just annoying (and I know I can just avoid going into posts) that so many just crap on everything.

The players are worth noting in a trade, but they will get huge contracts.

All the deals signed are awful, but avoid looking at cap hit because it doesn't help an argument.

In my opinion Nylander and Matthews deals are not "bad deals", they also aren't "home town discounts". To me both are fair deals but everything is always blown out of proportion.

Then Marner comes up and his is worth what Matthews is worth or Tavares ? It's crazy.

 

[Buds17]

I don't know what posters were saying it but when his contract was announced there were multiple posters saying he is over paid by 3 mil, others saying 1 mil.

All I'm pointing out is there is no way to justify how much he is over paid (or if he is even overpaid).

For every argument that people have one way there are arguments the other way.

His cap hit is all that matters for the team adding players, and his cap hit is right where it should be (between McDavid and Eichel).

I'm fine with the AAV, but wanted a longer term (7, if not 8 years). The problem in comparing the cap hit with the McDavid and Eichel contracts is that those were both eight year pacts. Don't think it's a bad contract. It's just not as team friendly as some others, which could lead to a competitive advantage.

 

[Notsince67]

It's just annoying (and I know I can just avoid going into posts) that so many just crap on everything.

The players are worth noting in a trade, but they will get huge contracts.

All the deals signed are awful, but avoid looking at cap hit because it doesn't help an argument.

In my opinion Nylander and Matthews deals are not "bad deals", they also aren't "home town discounts". To me both are fair deals but everything is always blown out of proportion.

Then Marner comes up and his is worth what Matthews is worth or Tavares ? It's crazy.

The contracts are awful. Matthews could and should have been locked up for 11x8 last summer. Nylander at 6.3 x 7 years. Nylanders is especially eggregious considering he sat out. Accounting for the time missed, he should have had 93.3 % of the contract i mentioned. Thats 5.88MM over 7 years. That is what happens when u sit out. Instead he got 7MM x 6 years.

 

[18leafsfan18]

The contracts are awful. Matthews could and should have been locked up for 11x8 last summer. Nylander at 6.3 x 7 years. Nylanders is especially eggregious considering he sat out. Accounting for the time missed, he should have had 93.3 % of the contract i mentioned. Thats 5.88MM over 7 years. That is what happens when u sit out. Instead he got 7MM x 6 years.

But how can you say they are awful ?

Nylander's 7 AAV comes in very close to comparables that signed similar contracts.

Matthews 11.6 AAV is less then McDavid, which to me is the only comparable to him right now (based on age and importance).