Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part II

[Brobust]

Leafs fans and leafs media cannot allow the Marner camp to talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Marner doesn't get to play the good ol' Toronto boy who got to grow up a leafs fan and build his profile and his endorsement earnings while having Ferriss and his Dad do the dirty work for him.

It's obvious that Marner doesn't care about being a leaf. We should stop caring about him being a leaf as well.

 

[Bomber0104]

Leafs fans and leafs media cannot allow the Marner camp to talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Marner doesn't get to play the good ol' Toronto boy who got to grow up a leafs fan and build his profile and his endorsement earnings while having Ferriss and his Dad do the dirty work for him.

It's obvious that Marner doesn't care about being a leaf. We should stop caring about him being a leaf as well.

He's a hockey player, not a Hollywood actor like some people seem to think.

I doubt his earnings from advertisement amount to a fraction of what his next contract will be.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Social media has been both a blessing and a curse to sports media ... A blessing in that breaking news can be shared so quickly, and curse because there is huge demand on needing the most up to date rumours and internal dealings that guys like Dreger have to relegate to lower standards to meet said demand.

 

[Brobust]

He's a hockey player, not a Hollywood actor like some people seem to think.

I doubt his earnings from advertisement amount to a fraction of what his next contract will be.

The Athletic reported that Marner's endorsement earnings were already in the Crosby/McDavid tier. He's definitely earning $5+ million a year.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Athletic reported that Marner's endorsement earnings were already in the Crosby/McDavid tier. He's definitely earning $5+ million a year.

How would they know this?

Are advertising expenditures for corporations publicly available information?

 

[Beanzy]

If Mitch, his father and his agent want to play hardball and entertain offer sheets - I say, let them. I'd gladly take the 4 1st round picks. Jeff Skinner is a UFA this summer, I'd go after him.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's a hockey player, not a Hollywood actor like some people seem to think.

I doubt his earnings from advertisement amount to a fraction of what his next contract will be.

They add up, but they come with commitments that extend past playing hockey. So, players while acknowledging they are part of the market, don't heavily value them due to the extra stuff involved, unlike tax breaks.

Matthews and Marner should have been sorted by the start of the season. Who cares about what effect it would have had on the Nylander negotiations. So far, its seems like the only people who the current management can get a good deal on was JT, who seemed intent on coming here. It seems every other deal is going to break the market previously set. So, we either have a culture where guys won't take discounts to play here, or a GM he can't negotiate, or some middle-ground between the 2.

After Nylander got that deal, and we caved to Matthews on the first and second negotiations (don't think this is forgotten how they refused to give Mitch bonuses in-line with the 4OA pick), Marner the Marner camp is going to fight for the Matthews deal. Which is the best deal any 2nd contract player has gotten (it is better than McDavid deal, unless Matthews gets severely injured).

 

[Brobust]

How would they know this?

Are advertising expenditures for corporations publicly available information?

Pretty sure you can get a gauge of Mitch Marner's ask by asking around people in advertising.

 

[hullsy47]

Leafs fans and leafs media cannot allow the Marner camp to talk out of both sides of their mouth.

Marner doesn't get to play the good ol' Toronto boy who got to grow up a leafs fan and build his profile and his endorsement earnings while having Ferriss and his Dad do the dirty work for him.

It's obvious that Marner doesn't care about being a leaf. We should stop caring about him being a leaf as well.

rumour is hes not happy that the hockey world rested him lower than tavaras and Mathews
if he gets to visit other teams save the money and trade for doughty
win a cup
this is gonna be a crazy summer

 

[Brobust]

rumour is hes not happy that the hockey world rested him lower than tavaras and Mathews
if he gets to visit other teams save the money and trade for doughty
win a cup
this is gonna be a crazy summer

He's not close to being as good as Tavares or Matthews.

At this point, I'd be happier if the leafs got a fair trade offer and moved on.

Kind of sick of having to hear this nonsense every couple of weeks.

 

[Bomber0104]

Pretty sure you can get a gauge of Mitch Marner's ask by asking around people in advertising.

So is that what they actually did or is that just you speculating on the Athletic's speculation?

 

[Menzinger]

Pretty sure you can get a gauge of Mitch Marner's ask by asking around people in advertising.

Advertising folks, agents, ect.

Not something terribly difficult for a journalist with a few connections configure out.

 

[MyBudJT]

I am 100% sure he only counted for 6.96M against the cap in 2018/19. Look at the Accum. Hit number for Nylander here:

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The structure of the payout doesn't effect the cap hit. It's always total amount paid divided by number of years

They gross up the cap full year cap hit in year one to ensure that amount charged to the cap is equal in all years of the contract.

His full year cap hit was 10,277,778
Daily cap hit = 10,277,778/186 days = 55,257
He was on the roster for 126 days
55,257 * 126 = 6,962,366 That's what he counted against the cap.

His total take home of the contract was 2M signing bonus in year one + prorated salary of 10M (6.77M) = 8.77 in year one.
8.3M signing bonus in year two + 0.7M salary = 9M
years 3-6 3.5M signing bonus + 2.5M salary = 6M

8.77 + 9 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 41.77

41.77/6 = 6.96M

Okay, I may have been wrong concerning cap hits changing. However my point is still valid. Had he joined the team in training camp, we would have had a lot more extra cap space at the TDL (3-4 mil?).

I also don't understand how that link says we had nearly 4 mil in cap space, when we were so tight to finish the season (<900K IIRC)

 

[Menzinger]

So is that what they actually did or is that just you speculating on how the Athletic is speculating?

Do you have a shred of evidence to counter the claim?

 

[Brobust]

So is that what they actually did or is that just you speculating on how the Athletic is speculating?

The method of determining the info was speculation but what isn't speculation is that an established media outlet wouldn't talk out of their ***.

 

[cookie]

The Athletic reported that Marner's endorsement earnings were already in the Crosby/McDavid tier. He's definitely earning $5+ million a year.

Imagine how much money he'll make if the Leafs end the drought.

 

[Bomber0104]

The method of determining the info was speculation but what isn't speculation is that an established media outlet wouldn't talk out of their ***.

Ok so you don't know nor does the Atheltic.

Exactly what I thought.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The Athletic reported that Marner's endorsement earnings were already in the Crosby/McDavid tier. He's definitely earning $5+ million a year.

Lol what. Source? Heard before Crosby makes ~$1m and even then it’s all national endorsements not local.

 

[Bomber0104]

Do you have a shred of evidence to counter the claim?

Why would I need evidence when I'm the one asking where the Atheltic got their info about Marner's advertising money?

 

[Brobust]

Ok so you don't know nor does the Atheltic.

Exactly what I thought.

You're acting like Marner's endorsement payouts are top secret information.

It's a pretty ridiculous argument that you're trying to start.

 

[Bomber0104]

You're acting like Marner's endorsement payouts are top secret information.

It's a pretty ridiculous argument that you're trying to start.

Then show me where you found out he's making $5 million a year.

Should be incredibly easy.

 

[Brobust]

Lol what. Source? Heard before Crosby makes ~$1m and even then it’s all national endorsements not local.

LOL. 2 second google search would prove this wrong. Forbes reported that Crosby earned $4.5 million in endorsements in 2016.

 

[Brobust]

Then show me where you found out he's making $5 million a year.

Should be incredibly easy.

I choose to believe The Athletic/Jonas Siegel's reporting. You're free to believe whatever you want. I don't care.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Yea somehow I’ve found it difficult to get ahold of wingers that compare well. I think I looked into Kucherov and found that Marner produced at a higher rate — important to pay attention to when Kucherov signed his $9.5m contract because that wouldn’t include last season. I could be wrong on the production comparison though. Also hard to use teams in Florida and Alberta as comparables given the tax situations as well.

Patrick Kane’s post-ELC IMO is an absolute floor for Marner’s contract. When you look at rate of production Marner produces quite a bit more both 5v5 and on the PP. Kane just had lots more PP time.

Marner out produced Kuch for sure during his ELC but Kuch got a 3 year bridge for 6.53%. If the NHL is moving towards paying UFA/RFAs the same amount then you can look at Kucherov's contract after he put 84 points in 74 games then 100 points in 80 games and set that as a ceiling.

However giving Matthews so much for so little term has likely made that pitch impossible. It will be a hard pill to swallow when we pay Mitch way over market value and I guarantee you it is what we will see (he isnt being traded).

 

[Bomber0104]

I choose to believe The Athletic/Jonas Siegel's reporting. You're free to believe whatever you want. I don't care.

Reporting would suggest they have actual tangible proof sourced that shows Marner makes as much as Crosby and McDavid...

What you mean to say is you choose to believe The Athletic / Jonas Siegel's speculation.