Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part II

[81Leafs50]

We thought the same thing with Nylander and Matthews, and yet, they got the contracts that they did.

Nylander got 200-300K more than he should have, but that the end of the day no one at MLSE is sweating 300K on the cap. Nylander signed a decent deal. 6 x 6.5 is what the Leafs wanted originally.



Matthews is getting paid #1 C, franchise player money. 40 goals in his rookie season. A season where Marner had 61pts.

Marner is not a franchise player. His stats were identical to Nylander for 2 seasons until the 40 goal guy showed up and padded Marners stats.

If Marner was a true super star then we would have seen more than a 4 goal increase based on his previous season. Going from 22 goals to 26 goals is not superstar level. Marners production is just the Tavares affect.

Anders Lee in NY scored 40 with Tavares and 28 this season without him.

Leafs have allocated their money properly. They have paid the top 2 C's and Nylander appropriately.

IF Marner wants franchise money then he should go somewhere where he can be a franchise player.

 

[ULF_55]

Not going through the whole thread and all the numbers, but wondering: along with Marner benefiting from Tavares and Tavares benefiting from Tavares, are we considering BOTH benefited from our forward depth, and didn’t automatically draw top defences and other teams top lines?

I think that might also have some impact.

One would hope that is obvious to everyone.

Tavares
Matthews

Who you going to put your best against, and if they're shifted back-to-back it isn't going to be your best.

Although Matthews usually get the inexperienced guys as his linemates.

 

[MyBudJT]

Speaking of transparency, folks who have been whining about the Leafs cap situation the loudest all of a sudden seem to be fine with the team writing a blank cheque to sign the guy no matter what the cost.

Marner is arguably our best player. Marner is in the Driver’s seat. Tavares, Matthews and Nylander all got paid. That’s what Marner wants too! The Nylander and Matthews contracts in particular has shifted Marner’s market value. Why should he sign for less than 10 AAV?

You don’t trade your best player for cap issues. You trade the Nylander’s, the Kadris, the Zaitsevs.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander got 200-300K more than he should have, but that the end of the day no one at MLSE is sweating 300K on the cap. Nylander signed a decent deal. 6 x 6.5 is what the Leafs wanted originally.



Matthews is getting paid #1 C, franchise player money. 40 goals in his rookie season. A season where Marner had 61pts.

Marner is not a franchise player. His stats were identical to Nylander for 2 seasons until the 40 goal guy showed up and padded Marners stats.

If Marner was a true super star then we would have seen more than a 4 goal increase based on his previous season. Going from 22 goals to 26 goals is not superstar level. Marners production is just the Tavares affect.

Anders Lee in NY scored 40 with Tavares and 28 this season without him.

Leafs have allocated their money properly. They have paid the top 2 C's and Nylander appropriately.

IF Marner wants franchise money then he should go somewhere where he can be a franchise player.

Nylander got 750K-1M more than he should have.

Also, you’re blatantly lieing here. Marner has had significantly better stats than Nylander...

 

[biotk]

You can do more with 12mill in Canada than 9.5 mill in the US. I know. its my job.

Your job is to do more with 12M in Canada than 9.5M in the US? Seems like a pretty sweet gig.

 

[Bomber0104]

???

I do quite the opposite actually. I think Marner could have easily gotten 100+ points with fully optimized offensive usage.

Let me guess..

By not running a 2nd PP unit.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nylander got 750K-1M more than he should have.

Also, you’re blatantly lieing here. Marner has had significantly better stats than Nylander...

Nylander's contract was fine for what he had done up until that point, he just fell flat on his face this season unfortunately.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander's contract was fine for what he had done up until that point, he just fell flat on his face this season unfortunately.

No it wasn't He got significantly higher than his closest comparisons (Ehlers and Forsberg). He got paid well above market value.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No it wasn't He got significantly higher than his closest comparisons (Ehlers and Forsberg). He got paid well above market value.

Ehlers signed his contract extension before playing year 3, Nylander (and the Leafs) chose to wait until he finished year 3. He used Pastrnak as a comparable which they had similar stats for. Nylander actually got less cap hit %. David Pastrnak promptly broke out right after signing that extension though while Nylander floundered after signing.

Management is to blame for not getting all 3 of the contracts done sooner.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Nylander got 750K-1M more than he should have.

Also, you’re blatantly lieing here. Marner has had significantly better stats than Nylander...

Nylander's market value was more than $6m for sure. His cap hit is $6.9. So, at most he could be overpaid by $750k, but that's almost certainly too much. I think $6.6m would have been a really good deal. So, ya, about $300k over. Maybe.

 

[MyBudJT]

Ehlers signed his contract extension before playing year 3, Nylander (and the Leafs) chose to wait until he finished year 3. He used Pastrnak as a comparable which they had similar stats for. Nylander actually got less cap hit %. David Pastrnak promptly broke out right after signing that extension though while Nylander floundered after signing.

Management is to blame for not getting all 3 of the contracts done sooner.

That doesn't really matter. Ehlers and his agent well know the cap was going to go up.

Pastrnak is a horrible comparible, and people should stop with it. In Pastrnak's U21 season, he scored 34G and 70P in 75GP. A pace we'll be lucky if Nylander comes close to.

 

[ACC1224]

Nylander got 200-300K more than he should have, but that the end of the day no one at MLSE is sweating 300K on the cap. Nylander signed a decent deal. 6 x 6.5 is what the Leafs wanted originally.



Matthews is getting paid #1 C, franchise player money. 40 goals in his rookie season. A season where Marner had 61pts.

Marner is not a franchise player. His stats were identical to Nylander for 2 seasons until the 40 goal guy showed up and padded Marners stats.

If Marner was a true super star then we would have seen more than a 4 goal increase based on his previous season. Going from 22 goals to 26 goals is not superstar level. Marners production is just the Tavares affect.

Anders Lee in NY scored 40 with Tavares and 28 this season without him.

Leafs have allocated their money properly. They have paid the top 2 C's and Nylander appropriately.

IF Marner wants franchise money then he should go somewhere where he can be a franchise player.

Jeffler.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Nylander got 200-300K more than he should have, but that the end of the day no one at MLSE is sweating 300K on the cap. Nylander signed a decent deal. 6 x 6.5 is what the Leafs wanted originally.



Matthews is getting paid #1 C, franchise player money. 40 goals in his rookie season. A season where Marner had 61pts.

Marner is not a franchise player. His stats were identical to Nylander for 2 seasons until the 40 goal guy showed up and padded Marners stats.

If Marner was a true super star then we would have seen more than a 4 goal increase based on his previous season. Going from 22 goals to 26 goals is not superstar level. Marners production is just the Tavares affect.

Anders Lee in NY scored 40 with Tavares and 28 this season without him.

Leafs have allocated their money properly. They have paid the top 2 C's and Nylander appropriately.

IF Marner wants franchise money then he should go somewhere where he can be a franchise player.

I can see the degradation of Marner is well underway now just like Nylander.

So I guess Marner had nothing to do with Tavares setting career highs? It’s all one way right? This is seriously one of the worst posts I’ve read on this forum in the past little while.

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander's market value was more than $6m for sure. His cap hit is $6.9. So, at most he could be overpaid by $750k, but that's almost certainly too much. I think $6.6m would have been a really good deal. So, ya, about $300k over. Maybe.

6.9M? Do you know how to round? Its closer to 7M than 6.9M.

Regardless, he's at least 750K overpaid.

 

[LaPlante94]

To me Ekblad isn't a top 15 D man. Maybe you make the trade betting he will get better again, but I wouldn't.

Ekblad is one of the better shutdown defenders in the league when it comes to denying zone entries and all that. Has a hell of a shot that he gets through traffic

Why Florida does that? Marner is twice the player that Ekblad is.

Because Ekblad is their only legit top pairing d man and so losing him even if they get Marner might set them back still when they really just need a good partner for him like we do for Rielly.

 

[Lightsol]

I can see the degradation of Marner is well underway now just like Nylander.

So I guess Marner had nothing to do with Tavares setting career highs? It’s all one way right? This is seriously one of the worst posts I’ve read on this forum in the past little while.

Hey, I've heard this argument before... Oh, yeah, when we had Bozak and Kessel, and Kessel had multiple career highs in goals and points... But people kept insisting that Bozak had nothing to do with it.

 

[LaPlante94]

Ekblad is absolutely wretched. He's a disaster and most Panther fans agree.

He really isn't though

 

[WTFMAN99]

That doesn't really matter. Ehlers and his agent well know the cap was going to go up.

Pastrnak is a horrible comparible, and people should stop with it. In Pastrnak's U21 season, he scored 34G and 70P in 75GP. A pace we'll be lucky if Nylander comes close to.

Why? Because it is inconvenient for your argument?

Pastrnak signed his extension Sept 15th he posted 3 seasons of 27, 26 and 70 pts.

He posted an 80 point season after the contract was signed already.

Nylander came off 61 pts in 81GP and then went off Pastrnak's 70 pt season, cap had gone up.

Get over it, move on.

 

[IPS]

Let me guess..

By not running a 2nd PP unit.

That’s pretty stupid

 

[MyBudJT]

Why? Because it is inconvenient for your argument?

Pastrnak signed his extension Sept 15th he posted 3 seasons of 27, 26 and 70 pts.

He posted an 80 point season after the contract was signed already.

Nylander came off 61 pts in 81GP and then went off Pastrnak's 70 pt season, cap had gone up.

Get over it, move on.

Why are you comparing Pastrnak's U19 and U20 seasons to Nylander's U21 and U22 seasons?

Because it is inconvenient for your argument?

 

[Fogelhund]

I can see the degradation of Marner is well underway now just like Nylander.

So I guess Marner had nothing to do with Tavares setting career highs? It’s all one way right? This is seriously one of the worst posts I’ve read on this forum in the past little while.

Tavares is the line driver there, and is the main reason for Marner having such a good season. Yes, Tavares has had some benefit too, but not near the degree to which Mitch has. It isn't a degradation either, just simple facts and data. Marner is a very good player, but if you are going to analyze both, you can easily come to such conclusions as well.

 

[Menzinger]

No it wasn't He got significantly higher than his closest comparisons (Ehlers and Forsberg). He got paid well above market value.

He also had better production numbers over his elc prior to signing his contract.....

 

[Menzinger]

Marner is arguably our best player. Marner is in the Driver’s seat. Tavares, Matthews and Nylander all got paid. That’s what Marner wants too! The Nylander and Matthews contracts in particular has shifted Marner’s market value. Why should he sign for less than 10 AAV?

You don’t trade your best player for cap issues. You trade the Nylander’s, the Kadris, the Zaitsevs.

You do what you do to make.the team better. Cap all of a sudden doesnt matter because you like the player a lot - and you're absolutely free to feel that way but it makes all that cap concern seem like hot air all of a sudden.

 

[MyBudJT]

You do what you do to make.the team better. Cap all of a sudden doesnt matter because you like the player a lot - and you're absolutely free to feel that way but it makes all that cap concern seem like hot air all of a sudden.

Nobody has said that cap doesn't matter. You're trying to put words in my mouth to help fit your agenda. If Marner wants 12M, either ship him out of town or let him sign that offer sheet.

 

[nuck]

No it wasn't He got significantly higher than his closest comparisons (Ehlers and Forsberg). He got paid well above market value.

6.9M? Do you know how to round? Its closer to 7M than 6.9M.

Regardless, he's at least 750K overpaid.

Some people are forgetting that the $6.96 cap hit includes him getting paid for the third of a season that he missed. Thats $2.3M in his jeans that he never worked for, so almost $400k per season, and then you look at the fact he should have been in at $6.6M per, especially with the bonus loading. Cap hit should have been around $6.3M net of games missed, so the overpay that could have been applied to another player is around $700k. Take $600k off of the Matthews deal and they could actually afford a better backup goalie than Sparks. Its all real money.