Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Sypher04]

If assessing Rantanen vs Marner, one can't help but notice the elephant in the room. 54 pts vs 69 points

Again, I'm on the same side with you that says ES production is very important.

 

[Notsince67]

I was told in the Nylander vs Pastrnak threads that one elite season doesn’t earn a big pay day. The consistency of doing it twice made Nylander more valuable.

Rantanen scored 85 points last year. He also scores more goals than Marner (didn’t we hear goals matter more in the Matthews threads)? He’s also currently leading the post season in points.

That MORE than makes for (lol) “more PP time”.

When have playoffs factored into comparables for the purpose of salary.
THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY FROM YOU.

I DEMAND CONSISTENCY

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When have playoffs factored into comparables for the purpose of salary.
THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY FROM YOU.

I DEMAND CONSISTENCY

I think playoff performance should count. I made the case after Nylanders joke of a playoff performance last year.

Regardless... based on everything else I wrote, Marner doesn’t deserve a penny more than Rantanen.

 

[Legion34]

When did kucherov sign his contract again? Was it after 17/18 season or mid way through that year. The gap between 18/19 marner and kucherov from 17/18 isnt that large. The gap between 18/19 kucherov and 18/19 marner is huge. Comparing marner to kuch at the time of his signing and adjusting for increase in the salary cap makes 8×9.5 be perfectly fair market value for marner and the leafs.

Huh?
In the last 3 years kucherov has been 5,3,1 in scoring.

In the past 3 years Marner has been 38,38,11

Scoring is up dramatically this year. If people really think it’s comparable
And are using Marner s raw totals in a platform year where scoring has shot up like crazy

Then dubas will be as dumb as everyone says.

Kucherov is a 12 million player. It’s the taxes

 

[Legion34]

Again, I'm on the same side with you that says ES production is very important.

Even strength is more important. But all 3 years are important. Marner was pp dependent for his first 2

 

[Peace Frog]

People talk about some of the markets that have much better tax situations and how that factors in to players contract negotiations.

What about markets that can get you much better endorsement opportunities? Shouldn’t that play an even bigger part in a player’s contract negotiations? Or should it?

Maybe that player feels that they will get those endorsements regardless of what the team offers? What do you think?

 

[Sypher04]

People talk about some of the markets that have much better tax situations and how that factors in to players contract negotiations.

What about markets that can get you much better endorsement opportunities? Shouldn’t that play an even bigger part in a player’s contract negotiations? Or should it?

Maybe that player feels that they will get those endorsements regardless of what the team offers? What do you think?

Endorsements are money paid for additional work. They should not count when discussing nhl contracts

 

[Legion34]

People talk about some of the markets that have much better tax situations and how that factors in to players contract negotiations.

What about markets that can get you much better endorsement opportunities? Shouldn’t that play an even bigger part in a player’s contract negotiations? Or should it?

Maybe that player feels that they will get those endorsements regardless of what the team offers? What do you think?

Because players in hockey don’t make millions upon millions in endorsements.

Tax breaks obviously matter more. Every mildly competitive team in a no tax state gets their players signed for less

It’s just facts

 

[Peace Frog]

What kind of money do hockey players get in endorsements? Guys like MM or AM, for instance.

 

[ToneDog]

I think playoff performance should count. I made the case after Nylanders joke of a playoff performance last year.

Regardless... based on everything else I wrote, Marner doesn’t deserve a penny more than Rantanen.

Apparently most players do not prefer to play in Canada and hence why most of the Canadian teams appear on a players no trade list (according to Burke). As such it could be a reason why Marner gets more than Rantanan. The fact that Leafs print money and Avs do not could factor in as well. I won't mention that Rantenan is not negotiating against Dubas.

 

[Peace Frog]

Endorsements are money paid for additional work. They should not count when discussing nhl contracts

What if a team like the Leafs were able to “drum up” more endorsements for a player, if said player were to sign for X instead of Y?

 

[Peace Frog]

Apparently most players do not prefer to play in Canada and hence why most of the Canadian teams appear on a players no trade list (according to Burke). As such it could be a reason why Marner gets more than Rantanan. The fact that Leafs print money and Avs do not could factor in as well. I won't mention that Rantenan is not negotiating against Dubas.

I think It’s safe to say that MM does NOT fall into the category of not wanting to play in a Canadian market.

 

[paulhiggins]

TBay pays very little taxes if any
You can't use there contracts as a measuring stick
Stevie Yzerman will find out that it is way different in Detroit
Add 25% taxes to TBay contracts
Additional 2.4 mil

Example
Stamkos contract
8.5 mil in TBay
10 mil in Canada

-1.5 mil endorsement differential = 8.5 mil in Canada

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

What if a team like the Leafs were able to “drum up” more endorsements for a player, if said player were to sign for X instead of Y?

He already has Apple, Visa, Intact Insurance, and several others paying him pretty well. He's getting the endorsements in this market regardless of what he signs for.

Not to mention this kind of thing is illegal in the CBA.

 

[Peace Frog]

He already has Apple, Visa, Intact Insurance, and several others paying him pretty well. He's getting the endorsements in this market regardless of what he signs for.

Not to mention this kind of thing is illegal in the CBA.

Illegal shmillegal!!

 

[ToneDog]

I think It’s safe to say that MM does NOT fall into the category of not wanting to play in a Canadian market.

I get the same feeling but given a choice he might choose the US. Nice to see JT chose to come home.

 

[hotpaws]

What kind of money do hockey players get in endorsements? Guys like MM or AM, for instance.

endorsements don't count for leaf players since they'd make Dubas look like an even bigger fool for raising the bar for rfa salaries , they would count if the Leaf players weren't able to attract them and other teams players could

also it's funny how many people keep bringing up the non state tax argument when they have zero idea the impact it has on the players salaries but just wrongly assume the players just head out to the mall and get there taxes done and have only the same basic exemptions a bank teller would

 

[FrozenJagrt]

He already has Apple, Visa, Intact Insurance, and several others paying him pretty well. He's getting the endorsements in this market regardless of what he signs for.

Not to mention this kind of thing is illegal in the CBA.

It's not illegal to point out the opportunities that exist within a given market. Selling the market is standard practice in contract negotiations

 

[Notsince67]

Huh?
In the last 3 years kucherov has been 5,3,1 in scoring.

In the past 3 years Marner has been 38,38,11

Scoring is up dramatically this year. If people really think it’s comparable
And are using Marner s raw totals in a platform year where scoring has shot up like crazy

Then dubas will be as dumb as everyone says.

Kucherov is a 12 million player. It’s the taxes

Scoring is not dramatically up this year. Top end scoring is but overall goals haven't moved all that much

 

[Notsince67]

Even strength is more important. But all 3 years are important. Marner was pp dependent for his first 2

All 3 years are not important.

 

[Legion34]

Scoring is not dramatically up this year. Top end scoring is but overall goals haven't moved all that much

He is 11th in scoring. No matter the numbers each year 10 players scored more than him. He lost the art Ross by what 30 pts? And he played 82 games with a top. 5-10 c in the league.

It’s just the facts. I think he is great. But he’s not the best winger in the league.

94 pts would have won the ross in a few of the past 5 years.

 

[Legion34]

All 3 years are not important.

Ummm yes they are? Your whole history gets taken into account?

You do know that right? Unless you think William Karlson should have got 11 x 8 in Vegas last year?

40 g 25 year old C...... previous years sit matter right?

 

[Notsince67]

He is 11th in scoring. No matter the numbers each year 10 players scored more than him. He lost the art Ross by what 30 pts? And he played 82 games with a top. 5-10 c in the league.

It’s just the facts. I think he is great. But he’s not the best winger in the league.

94 pts would have won the ross in a few of the past 5 years.

Statistically the third best right winger in the league ...at 21 years old.
I can't say Matthews is the anywhere near the third best center in the league.

 

[Legion34]

Statistically the third best right winger in the league ...at 21 years old.
I can't say Matthews is the anywhere near the third best center in the league.

Sure give him 3rd best right winger money. Sounds fair

 

[Notsince67]

Ummm yes they are? Your whole history gets taken into account?

You do know that right? Unless you think William Karlson should have got 11 x 8 in Vegas last year?

40 g 25 year old C...... previous years sit matter right?

You are making crap up. Teams might look at a third year on the periphery but you don't apply a formula in all situations. If that were true, the fact that Matthews didn't actually achieve a high ranking of points because of injuries in the last 2 years wouldn't have been ignored.