Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[ManosArriba]

If Marner would accept an offer sheet to play for the Rags he isnt the kind of guy I want here anyways.

 

[horner]

Market value for such a player is firmly set with the Kucherov contract. Sure, there's tax benefits there, but the fact that 7 ufa years are signed for MORE than offsets that (as well as Kucherov is currently the far better player).

Leaf fans are more than happy to pay Marner fair market value (9.5x8). But not to dramatically overpay. If another team wants to DRAMATICALLY overpay Marner (which I highly highly doubt), we'll be more than happy with the 4 first round picks.
It is what it is.

TBay pays very little taxes if any
You can't use there contracts as a measuring stick
Stevie Yzerman will find out that it is way different in Detroit
Add 25% taxes to TBay contracts
Additional 2.4 mil

Example
Stamkos contract
8.5 mil in TBay
10 mil in Canada

 

[diceman934]

Won’t that be a good thing for the Leafs if that happens.

Why would it be good for us. He had a horrible year for the most part.

 

[Bomber0104]

TBay pays very little taxes if any
You can't use there contracts as a measuring stick
Stevie Yzerman will find out that it is way different in Detroit
Add 25% taxes to TBay contracts
Additional 2.4 mil

Example
Stamkos contract
8.5 mil in TBay
10 mil in Canada

The whole "no state tax" angle is extremely exaggerated.

It's not as big a difference as you seem to suggest here.

 

[Gabriel426]

Why would it be good for us. He had a horrible year for the most part.

If his contract is low, then it is a good thing.
But if his contract is still high despite him struggling this past year, it will more stats to support Marner getting a higher contract.

 

[Notsince67]

The whole "no state tax" angle is extremely exaggerated.

It's not as big a difference as you seem to suggest here.

Yeah....and Matthews really is 3 MM better than Stamkos.

 

[Al14]

If Marner would accept an offer sheet to play for the Rags he isnt the kind of guy I want here anyways.

Exactly, it would be treasonous IMHO.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Who said they will. You have though.

I don't think they will. Not a chance in hell.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

TBay pays very little taxes if any
You can't use there contracts as a measuring stick
Stevie Yzerman will find out that it is way different in Detroit
Add 25% taxes to TBay contracts
Additional 2.4 mil

Example
Stamkos contract
8.5 mil in TBay
10 mil in Canada

I pointed all of that out.

Kucherov has lower taxes. But he also scored far more points than Marner. And his contract took up SEVEN ufa years. That balances out the tax benefits.

So 9.5x8 is still far ABOVE market value for Marner.

 

[4thline]

In a world where Stamkos signs for 8.5 in the same off-season Kopitar and Benn signed for 9.5 and 10 and Kucherov signs for 9.5 four years after Kane signs for 10.5, and McDonagh signs for only 100k more for two extra years (+ an extra year in delay) vs his far inferior in Shattenkirk a smart person realizes that line in the sand benchmarking vs. Tampa contracts isn't well... smart.

 

[Mess]

He will not sign an offer sheet unless the Leafs tell him they are not signing him to a contract around 10-11 per.

The Leafs might trade him if that is the case.

Dubas might just realize having 3 players making $10-$12 mil is inconceivable as to how you can ice a competitive team in a Salary Cap World and if he is not willing to go to $10 mil then perhaps he explores trade options prior to July 1st.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I had a dream that marner signed for 8 x 9.5. Was disappointed when I realized it wasn't real

 

[TML Dynasty]

10.5 MM wont even yield 4 1sts on the new offersheet numbers.

Wow, thanks for that. Didn’t realize it needed to be a little more.

 

[hamzarocks]

I pointed all of that out.

Kucherov has lower taxes. But he also scored far more points than Marner. And his contract took up SEVEN ufa years. That balances out the tax benefits.

So 9.5x8 is still far ABOVE market value for Marner.

When did kucherov sign his contract again? Was it after 17/18 season or mid way through that year. The gap between 18/19 marner and kucherov from 17/18 isnt that large. The gap between 18/19 kucherov and 18/19 marner is huge. Comparing marner to kuch at the time of his signing and adjusting for increase in the salary cap makes 8×9.5 be perfectly fair market value for marner and the leafs.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When did kucherov sign his contract again? Was it after 17/18 season or mid way through that year. The gap between 18/19 marner and kucherov from 17/18 isnt that large. The gap between 18/19 kucherov and 18/19 marner is huge. Comparing marner to kuch at the time of his signing and adjusting for increase in the salary cap makes 8×9.5 be perfectly fair market value for marner and the leafs.

7 ufa years to 3. Still an overpayment for Marner. But I’d accept it at this point. I’m now at a point where I accept slight overpayments from Dubas. It’s better than the Dubas special of dramatically overpaying everyone.

Rantanen has more goals and points than Marner the past two seasons (and is currently leading nhl in playoff points) and I doubt he’ll make a penny more than Kucherov.

 

[Sypher04]

I would genuinely be shocked if Marner signed an offer sheet.

 

[Notsince67]

7 ufa years to 3. Still an overpayment for Marner. But I’d accept it at this point. I’m now at a point where I accept slight overpayments from Dubas. It’s better than the Dubas special of dramatically overpaying everyone.

Rantanen has more goals and points than Marner the past two seasons (and is currently leading nhl in playoff points) and I doubt he’ll make a penny more than Kucherov.

Rantanen had significantly less EV points than Marner this year. Apparently this matters with Matthews but not Marner.
On the PP, had Marner scored at his p/60 with the amount of PP time Rantanen was given, he would have 7 more points leaving him in sole possession of the 5th overall in scoring . You might want to re-examine your conclusions.

 

[Sypher04]

Rantanen had significantly less EV points than Marner this year. Apparently this matters with Matthews but not Marner.
On the PP, had Marner scored at his p/60 with the amount of PP time Rantanen was given, he would have 7 more points leaving him in sole possession of the 5th overall in scoring . You might want to re-examine your conclusions.

Wait, who claimed ES production isn't important with Marner? I think it's critical to assessing any player personally

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Too bad they can't pay players by the point...imagine how hard they would try then?!

 

[Sypher04]

Too bad they can't pay players by the point...imagine how hard they would try then?!

This would come with many of its own problems

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Rantanen had significantly less EV points than Marner this year. Apparently this matters with Matthews but not Marner.
On the PP, had Marner scored at his p/60 with the amount of PP time Rantanen was given, he would have 7 more points leaving him in sole possession of the 5th overall in scoring . You might want to re-examine your conclusions.

I was told in the Nylander vs Pastrnak threads that one elite season doesn’t earn a big pay day. The consistency of doing it twice made Nylander more valuable.

Rantanen scored 85 points last year. He also scores more goals than Marner (didn’t we hear goals matter more in the Matthews threads)? He’s also currently leading the post season in points.

That MORE than makes for (lol) “more PP time”.

 

[Legion34]

I am not going to have a long debate with you.

Internal cap is vastly more relevant that external Comparable players.

Look at Tampa for and example you need to compare them to us. Stammer and JT then add in Matthews. Marner is going to get more money then his external comparison players.

Matthews signed for over his value based on a 5 year deal as did Nylander. It comes down to context.

If that were true then we wouldn’t need a salary cap. Players would negotiate based on their own teams...

We wouldnt have arbitration.

It’s not true at all.

 

[Notsince67]

When did kucherov sign his contract again? Was it after 17/18 season or mid way through that year. The gap between 18/19 marner and kucherov from 17/18 isnt that large. The gap between 18/19 kucherov and 18/19 marner is huge. Comparing marner to kuch at the time of his signing and adjusting for increase in the salary cap makes 8×9.5 be perfectly fair market value for marner and the leafs.

Do you really think that Kucherov will score more points in the next 8 years? Marner is already 43% higher than where Kucherov was when he was the same age.

 

[Sypher04]

Whether they matter more is definitely up for some debate, but there's no question that goals have typically speaking garnered more money.

 

[Notsince67]

Wait, who claimed ES production isn't important with Marner? I think it's critical to assessing any player personally

If assessing Rantanen vs Marner, one can't help but notice the elephant in the room. 54 pts vs 69 points