Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[taurine330]

I hope Rantanen is signed before Marner. He performed better during the regular season and playoffs. Mitch can not ask more than Rantanen.

 

[bentharbs]

Why the heck are people getting all uppity about comparing Marners and Matthews as if they do not play on the same team? C'mon, guys.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Interesting twitter thread:

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why the heck are people getting all uppity about comparing Marners and Matthews as if they do not play on the same team? C'mon, guys.

The reason some people are wary of it is because we have a history of comparisons leading to opposite camps that stop at nothing to win, including taking constant potshots at the other guy. It was bad enough with Bozak vs Kadri. I don't want to see this place if we do the same with Matthews and Marner.

Interesting twitter thread:

I've always thought the idea of driving a line to be a difficult one. What does it actually entail? If it's that you need to be the best player on a successful line, then a Nylander is a yes for me. I can see him centering a third line with some talent on his wings being a huge success. If you add that you need to be able to do that irregardless of type and quality of your linemates, then you're basically looking at Crosby and nobody else. It's just to check McDavid's performance away from Draisaitl to see what can happen even to a guy like him when he has crap for wingers.

Personally, I'm a bit in the middle ground there. My criterias for being able to drive a line would be:
1) Be the best player on the line.
2) Carry a large portion of the work load.
3) The line needs to actually be successful.
4) Make do with what quality you can expect for the line usage.
5) Be able to have that success no matter what type of player you put on the line.

Someone like Nylander is then only a half yes for me. I'm not sure about #5. Getting bad results with only grinders is one thing (there's actually research on this that showed that lines with two players like that, irregardless of quality, just does not fare well) but I think he might need a good goalscorer on the line to turn possession and chances into production. Marner is a probably to me, he's got a similar case but we haven't seen him with only grinders, and I think his creativity could mean that he's not as dependent on goalscorers. Matthews and Tavares are both definitely yes. And so is Kadri, to be honest. It's perhaps the most amazing thing about him.

 

[The CyNick]

I know I'm being a bet facetious.
But why would Marner get $10.5x4 if Kuchi took $9.5x8? It doesn't make sense.

The young GM is easy to steal on. He set the table now everyone is lining up to get a meal.

 

[The CyNick]

The gm’s main job is to get players at fair market value.

Dubas hasn’t been able to do this. Not anywhere CLOSE to fair market value.

ENOUGH of the lame bull**** excuses.

He's a genius though. At least that's what I read on message boards and in blogs like the athletic.

 

[hullsy47]

The young GM is easy to steal on. He set the table now everyone is lining up to get a meal.

ya but he learned.there is more to marner wanting to wait to sign
not sure he is gonna be a life long leaf
but no one is gonna offer sheet Jim 11 million for 5 years
just wont happen and just maybe that's how the leafs will get the extra years
just a hunch
but if someone offers u kucherov for marner straight up u do it in a heartbeat

 

[hockeywiz542]

Don’t expect the Islanders to look the same - New York Post

No longer a laughingstock. No longer the NHL’s Shipwreck Franchise. The Islanders will be taken seriously. This all represents a quantum leap in credibility. But though their progress was as incontrovertible as it was dramatic and unexpected, it is not as if the team can count on being back in the same place next year.

If for no other reason — and there are other reasons, manifest among them a lack of upper-echelon, high-octane offensive talent beyond Mat Barzal — that it is impossible to project what the roster will look like next season.

The Islanders have oodles of cap space, perhaps up to $34 million, but available money has never necessarily been known to burn a hole in this general manager’s pockets. How much will he ante up in order to prevent a well-respected captain from defecting for a second straight season? How much will he throw in the pot to keep Lehner, pulled through no fault of his own at 3:17 of the second period after Carolina scored twice in 66 seconds to grab a 3-1 lead and essentially put away the series. Will the GM go all in on Nelson, who had little in this series after an impressive performance against Pittsburgh?

And how will the team add more elite skill and additional polish to the grind? Will Lamoriello commit to a bidding war for the Blue Jackets’ impending free agent winger Artemi Panarin that will surely include the Rangers and Panthers?

Could he, would he, pull a loo-loo and offer-sheet Toronto’s Mitch Marner?

 

[Notsince67]

Don’t expect the Islanders to look the same - New York Post

Lou could get Panarin and offersheet Marner

 

[Menzinger]

Don’t expect the Islanders to look the same - New York Post

He could. But he won't.

 

[TheDoldrums]

The Islanders are exactly the type of the team we should allow to give us 4 1st rounders. They could easily be in the lottery for the near future, even with Marner.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner played with....
Matthews played with....

Arguments go around and around. Either way Mitch is a special talent....the most likely to take a little discount IMO....and should get a great offer. Just hope for the team it’s around 10 at most

10.5 MM wont even yield 4 1sts on the new offersheet numbers.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I hope Rantanen is signed before Marner. He performed better during the regular season and playoffs. Mitch can not ask more than Rantanen.

If Marner makes a single penny more than Rantanen, I'm making a formal appeal to the secretery general of the United Nations.

I know that sounds like hyperbole. But I'm dead f***ing serious.

 

[Mess]

It could end up the signing of Tavares results in the departure of Marner for cap reasons.

An offersheet might be tough for the Leafs to match and fit into their cap.

Leafs essentially gave Marner's cap to JT and now Marner might end up being squeezed out.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Don’t expect the Islanders to look the same - New York Post

Nothing would make me happier than to have 4 first round picks from the Islanders (who I view as a playoff bubble team... at best) and have 11 million in cap space to spend 5.5 each on a defender and forward.

It's a dream come true. Make it happen Lou.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It could end up the signing of Tavares results in the departure of Marner for cap reasons.

An offersheet might be tough for the Leafs to match and fit into their cap.

Leafs essentially gave Marner's cap to JT and now Marner might end up being squeezed out.

Tavares at 7 years for Marner at (probably 5) at similar cap hit.
Plus four 1st round picks.

I'll take it.

 

[Cor]

10.5 MM wont even yield 4 1sts on the new offersheet numbers.

Depends on the contract term.

Offer sheet compensation is calculated on a 5 or less year term.

Meaning if they sign Marner to 10.5 x 7, it’s calculated at 5 years,

So 73.5 / 5 years = 14.7 AAV and 4 first rounders.

However 10.5M on a 1-4 year deal would not result in 4 first rounders

 

[FraumBallard]

It could end up the signing of Tavares results in the departure of Marner for cap reasons.

An offersheet might be tough for the Leafs to match and fit into their cap.

Leafs essentially gave Marner's cap to JT and now Marner might end up being squeezed out.

Tough spot.
If Marner wants 10.6 or more.
Take the 4 firsts if someone OS him.
Cap space and high picks.
Win Win.

 

[Lenovs]

I hope Rantanen is signed before Marner. He performed better during the regular season and playoffs. Mitch can not ask more than Rantanen.

he can and he will.

 

[Mess]

Depends on the contract term.

Offer sheet compensation is calculated on a 5 or less year term.

Meaning if they sign Marner to 10.5 x 7, it’s calculated at 5 years,

So 73.5 / 5 years = 14.7 AAV and 4 first rounders.

However 10.5M on a 1-4 year deal would not result in 4 first rounders

The $10.5 mil X 7 years doesn't make sense (other than used as an example of calculating the comp pics). Which you're attempting to do here, so it might only be an example for that purpose alone.

Matthews got $11.634 for 5 years (giving up only 1 UFA year) if Marner uses that it would be $10.5 mil X only 5 years (also giving up only 1 UFA year). Marner wouldn't want to give away years 6&7 to Leafs at that $$ and so wouldn't sign a offersheet for that either.

If a team knows its going to give up 4 X 1st than that $10.5 mil lower comp threshold becomes irrelevant, unless keeping below it mattered, otherwise you will see a $12-13 mil X 7 offer. Or it would be $10.5 mil X 5 years = lower comp picks but not 7 years.

 

[Cor]

The $10.5 mil X 7 years doesn't make sense (other than used as an example of calculating the comp pics). Which you're attempting to do here, so it might only be an example for that purpose alone.

Matthews got $11.634 for 5 years (giving up only 1 UFA year) if Marner uses that it would be $10.5 mil X only 5 years (also giving up only 1 UFA year). Marner wouldn't want to give away years 6&7 to Leafs at that $$ and so wouldn't sign a offersheet for that either.

If a team knows its going to give up 4 X 1st than that $10.5 mil lower comp threshold becomes irrelevant, unless keeping below it mattered, otherwise you will see a $12-13 mil X 7 offer. Or it would be $10.5 mil X 5 years = lower comp picks but not 7 years.

It was an example Mess.

 

[FlareKnight]

It could end up the signing of Tavares results in the departure of Marner for cap reasons.

An offersheet might be tough for the Leafs to match and fit into their cap.

Leafs essentially gave Marner's cap to JT and now Marner might end up being squeezed out.

No, it won't be the signing of Tavares that results in Marner leaving. What would be unreasonable to pay Marner would be unreasonable regardless of where Tavares was playing hockey. If Tavares wasn't here the Leafs wouldn't suddenly be fine paying him 11 or 12 million per season. The only offersheets that are tough to deal with are the ones I doubt anyone wants to give out. I doubt many if any teams are ready to hand over 4 first round picks and make him the winger in the league with the highest cap hit. Because that's the offersheet that will be bothersome to work around. On top of that need to find a team that Marner actually wants to play for since you can't offersheet someone against their will. And that's going to require finding a team that gives him a chance to win, so much money he's willing to leave and will allow him to get similar amounts in endorsement deals.

The Marner offersheet discussion is a joke that is there to keep TSN, Sportsnet, and fear mongers getting attention once the offseason arrives. Any offersheet that doesn't result in a team giving up 4 first rounders aren't likely to appeal to Marner and would be matched. And any that does will likely be too rich for the limited number of teams that could both offer the contract and still appeal to Marner. Little doubt he ends up signed with the Leafs. And in the only case where he doesn't it won't be the Tavares deal that leads to him going. It will just be simple greed and signing a ridiculous contract that won't be worth it for any team that ends up stuck with it.

 

[The CyNick]

Tough spot.
If Marner wants 10.6 or more.
Take the 4 firsts if someone OS him.
Cap space and high picks.
Win Win.

Who said the picks are high? Could easily be 4 picks in the 25-31 range.

The cap space will be eaten up quickly or will sit there and not make the team any better.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Who said the picks are high? Could easily be 4 picks in the 25-31 range.

The cap space will be eaten up quickly or will sit there and not make the team any better.

How many elite teams have 12 mil in cap space and all 4 1st round picks?

 

[Legion34]

Why the heck are people getting all uppity about comparing Marners and Matthews as if they do not play on the same team? C'mon, guys.

Because the fact that they play on the same team doesn’t make them comparable