Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Mr Hockey]

Leafs PP was 8th in the league. It hardly sucked.

ok, hows about struggled at times?

 

[FlareKnight]

ok, hows about struggled at times?

I'd say we go with sucked. It was good at the start of the year and that carried the percentage far higher than it was in reality for the rest of the season. With the minimal powerplays we got there was no chance for our terrible powerplay to drag down the percentage

 

[Bomber0104]

So the fact that Lou didnt cave and didnt give Marner a bonus has helped the negotiations now?

Whatever bonuses Marner's agent/Dad feels he missed out on can more than be paid back to him through this new contract...

If he signs for 6+ years

 

[The CyNick]

No I think EK is going to get a Doughty deal.

Kick the tires on Stralman, Myers, Anders Lee, Brock Nelson, Skinner, Panarin, DZingel, ...

Some mid-tier players would help, and be kind of fun to bring Nelson or Lee into the fold to play with x-mate Tavares.

But I'm sure a reasonable deal can be made before July 1st., and if not then go shopping.

I dunno man a lot of those guys are either middle of the road players that often look like overpayment or are higher end players who will be looking for deals close to Marner.

We've been put in a really terrible position. You either pay Marner almost $3M more than you needed to, or you let him go to a competitor and get a potentially weak return and there arent the players available to drastically improve the team with the money saved.

Only hope would be to make dollar for dollar trades and add one or more of the picks to upgrade the position. Example Nylander plus a 1st gets you what type of D man? What about plus two 1sts?

But now you've gutted the forward depth so you'll have Matthews and Tavares flapping in the wind.

Not good.

 

[The CyNick]

Whatever bonuses Marner's agent/Dad feels he missed out on can more than be paid back to him through this new contract...

If he signs for 6+ years

He'll likely sign for 11.6 X 5.

 

[willmma]

Kucherov scored 41 goals 128 points and signed $9.5M x 8. Kuchi played with Stamkos.

I know taxes are a standard argument here but, the cap doesnt take into account taxes. So taxes shouldnt count. Taxes are the cost players have to pay for playing in Toronto.

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 points playing with Tavares.

if we use point production as a measure then Marner produced 73% of Kuchi. 73% of $9.5M is $6.97M (whoa! Willy money!?)

Heck, never mind my tax talk from before. lets cover the 13% Ontario income tax. That's $7.88M.

Now lets give him another $1 million because we wuuuuuuv him more than Tampa loves Kuchi.

Finally Dubas caves on term. so I say he'll get $9M x 4.

You read it here first.

 

[The CyNick]

Leafs PP was 8th in the league. It hardly sucked.

It sucked for a large portion of the year. It was fire at first, then was like an 18 wheeler.

 

[Bomber0104]

He'll likely sign for 11.6 X 5.

Not with us..

But heck this is Dubas who's doing the negotiating, so I guess all bets are off.

 

[The CyNick]

Kucherov scored 41 goals 128 points and signed $9.5M x 8. Kuchi played with Stamkos.

I know taxes are a standard argument here but, the cap doesnt take into account taxes. So taxes shouldnt count. Taxes are the cost players have to pay for playing in Toronto.

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 points playing with Tavares.

if we use point production as a measure then Marner produced 73% of Kuchi. 73% of $9.5M is $6.97M (whoa! Willy money!?)

Heck, never mind my tax talk from before. lets cover the 13% Ontario income tax. That's $7.88M.

Now lets give him another $1 million because we wuuuuuuv him more than Tampa loves Kuchi. And because

Finally Dubas caves on term. so I say he'll get $9M x 4.

You read it here first.

You would be laughed at in a negotiation trying to use that logic.

I don't even think he takes a phone call for less than $10.5 and that might be only a 4 year deal.

 

[The CyNick]

Not with us..

But heck this is Dubas who's doing the negotiating, so I guess all bets are off.

That's the deal he will sign. You can bank on it.

 

[willmma]

Not with us..

But heck this is Dubas who's doing the negotiating, so I guess all bets are off.

Dubas didnt over pay. he just caves on term. $7M and $11.6M for Willy and Auston are reasonable number if the term was 7 or 8 years.

If we signed those guys for at that money for long term deals then we would be in the same cap predicament right now.
The problem was not the money. It's the term.

 

[Knightnight]

Kucherov scored 41 goals 128 points and signed $9.5M x 8. Kuchi played with Stamkos.

I know taxes are a standard argument here but, the cap doesnt take into account taxes. So taxes shouldnt count. Taxes are the cost players have to pay for playing in Toronto.

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 points playing with Tavares.

if we use point production as a measure then Marner produced 73% of Kuchi. 73% of $9.5M is $6.97M (whoa! Willy money!?)

Heck, never mind my tax talk from before. lets cover the 13% Ontario income tax. That's $7.88M.

Now lets give him another $1 million because we wuuuuuuv him more than Tampa loves Kuchi.

Finally Dubas caves on term. so I say he'll get $9M x 4.

You read it here first.

Now do the same exercise based on Kuch makes more than Stamkos. Winger paid more than centre. So AM and JT should have made???? Based on Stamkos out scoring both AM and JT they should maybe have made 9 to 9.5?

 

[Bomber0104]

Dubas didnt over pay. he just caves on term. $7M and $11.6M for Willy and Auston are reasonable number if the term was 7 or 8 years.

If we signed those guys for at that money for long term deals then we would be in the same cap predicament right now.
The problem was not the money. It's the term.

That still means he overpaid.

 

[willmma]

You would be laughed at in a negotiation trying to use that logic.

I don't even think he takes a phone call for less than $10.5 and that might be only a 4 year deal.

I know I'm being a bet facetious.
But why would Marner get $10.5x4 if Kuchi took $9.5x8? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Pilky01]

Marner is going to take Dubas to the wood shed.

 

[PromisedLand]

10.16 x 8 get it done!

 

[Notsince67]

Kucherov scored 41 goals 128 points and signed $9.5M x 8. Kuchi played with Stamkos.

I know taxes are a standard argument here but, the cap doesnt take into account taxes. So taxes shouldnt count. Taxes are the cost players have to pay for playing in Toronto.

Marner scored 26 goals and 94 points playing with Tavares.

if we use point production as a measure then Marner produced 73% of Kuchi. 73% of $9.5M is $6.97M (whoa! Willy money!?)

Heck, never mind my tax talk from before. lets cover the 13% Ontario income tax. That's $7.88M.

Now lets give him another $1 million because we wuuuuuuv him more than Tampa loves Kuchi.

Finally Dubas caves on term. so I say he'll get $9M x 4.

You read it here first.

Based on age projection using the kucherov curve, marner is slated to score 187 points then when he is kucherovs age which is on the 4th year. Seems a bit light. Argument is equally ridiculous. Kucherov signed after 100 point season.

 

[bentharbs]

Some people are just completely irrational. It doesn't matter what "should" or "should not" count - it is what player wants vs. what the team offers. That is it. If Marner, his father, or his agent want to point out taxes and hold out because if it, that is because it matters. This is the real world, not some fantasy land of armchair GMs.

 

[ULF_55]

If marner (and his parents) are upset the way negotiations went. Too bad. That business and life. Look at all the ads and businesses he's associated with. That family just seem to be money hungry. Paul invested alot in his son's hockey performance and wants to see maximum return. I get it. But to get emotional about it, it's such a ***** move.

He plays anywhere else in the nhl and his endorsement dollars drop significantly.

Wonder if his dad is one of his representatives? Would be a huge mistake on mitch's part. Go ask jack Johnson how well that went for him.

I hope they are just being trolled.

If this is actually how they feel, it won't go over well with teammates making 25% of what he thinks is beneath him.

First there was Robidas Island, now there'll be Marner's Island of the Entitled.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Some people are just completely irrational. It doesn't matter what "should" or "should not" count - it is what player wants vs. what the team offers. That is it. If Marner, his father, or his agent want to point out taxes and hold out because if it, that is because it matters. This is the real world, not some fantasy land of armchair GMs.

So why even have gm’s? I suppose players, their fathers, and their agents should just be given blank cheque’s.

 

[bentharbs]

So why even have gm’s? I suppose players, their fathers, and their agents should just be given blank cheque’s.

No. That is not what I said. Please read again slowly.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No. That is not what I said. Please read again slowly.

The gm’s main job is to get players at fair market value.

Dubas hasn’t been able to do this. Not anywhere CLOSE to fair market value.

ENOUGH of the lame bullshit excuses.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Kucherov scored 41 goals 128 points and signed $9.5M x 8. Kuchi played with Stamkos.

I know taxes are a standard argument here but, the cap doesnt take into account taxes. So taxes shouldnt count. Taxes are the cost players have to pay for playing in Toronto.

.

??? Sounds like you are confusing a deterrent with an incentive ......

 

[bentharbs]

The man job is to get players at fair market value.

Dubas hasn’t been able to do this.

ENOUGH of the lame bull**** excuses.

There was no excuse there. I actually didn't even make any suggestion about the quality of Dubas' work. You should note I simply suggested that these things do matter, regardless of what others feel "should" or "should not."

 

[willmma]

??? Sounds like you are confusing a deterrent with an incentive ......

If you want to play in Toronto you have to pay the taxes.