Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Babcocks Marner]

What are you talking about? He had back to back 61 point seasons, he shot 5% this season, he was really really good on the PP in his rookie year. 17/18 was a **** year for everyone on the PP.

Marner had a PDO of 103.2 this season (really ****ing high) and Nylander was at 98.6.

Nylander will be within 10 points of Marner next season if he's on PP1. If he isn't on PP1, he will still end up with about the same or more ES points than Marner.

PDO is a stupid stat.
Nylander also had a PDO of 104 last year (really ****ing high). So what you saying is Nylander needs to be lucky to hit 61 points? and while unlucky, looking at a 48ish pt season?

Marner had 70 even strength points this year......... Nylanders career high point total is 61, and 48 ES Pts is his career high. (Which was toted as the greatest even strength line in hockey by many posters here)

Last 2 seasons at even strength:
Marner
164GP - 36goals - 112points (0.68)

Nylander
136GP - 20goals - 69points (0.51)


Last 3 seasons at even strength
Marner
241GP - 51goals - 152points

Matthews
212GP - 85goals - 150points

Nylander
217GP - 33goals - 104points


And for the 5v5 guys, you will also see it's pretty even using 5v5 as well.

 

[ULF_55]

Which top UFA though? EK?

No I think EK is going to get a Doughty deal.

Kick the tires on Stralman, Myers, Anders Lee, Brock Nelson, Skinner, Panarin, DZingel, ...

Some mid-tier players would help, and be kind of fun to bring Nelson or Lee into the fold to play with x-mate Tavares.

But I'm sure a reasonable deal can be made before July 1st., and if not then go shopping.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

 

[Cor]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

The bonus thing was standard under Lou. The only time he waiverd was for Matthews.

He was sent back because the Leafs knew they were going to be historically bad that year, and we were and he had more success and won more in London.

Frankly, this seems like a Paul Marner thing, but if Mitch Marner feels disrespected, when this team and city has done nothing but adore him?

 

[Pi]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

At this point I don't really care who is slighted or not. If Marner's contract starts with a 10, fire Dubas because he caved hard.

If Dubas cannot get Marner's contract right, I don't have much hope in him getting the rest of it right. I'd hire Mike Gillis who did a great job in Vancouver, was an agent prior to becoming a GM and knows how to assemble a team within the cap. He deserves a second shot.

In hindsight, the Leafs made a mistake. They should have let Marner play right after be was drafted so last year he would have been up for a contract and cost around 7M. Who knows if he would be the same player if he was rushed though?

Marner shouldn't really feel insulted that he was sent back to the OHL after the draft. He was a scrawny little kid with a lot of talent. We have seen what happens when you rush players. Edmonton rushed RNH and he never really became the player he could have been.

 

[Advanced stats]

10x8 is perfectly acceptable for marner.
Borderline a steal imo.

 

[ULF_55]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

What an entourage.

Time for Marner to cut the cords or take his zoo somewhere else.

Maybe the Coyotes are saying, "If not Matthews ..."

 

[Buds17]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

Can't go back. Can only move forward. Other than the obvious of a contract not being completed yet, I wonder what the current situation and feeling is?

 

[Menzinger]

I feel like we've heard of (Paul) Marner being slighted by the bonus thing so many times. Pretty frustrating that one of Lou's "rules" hurt the relationship considering it would have been easy and reasonable to give him those bonuses.

For all the flack that some folks have tried to dump on Nylander and Matthew's parents (usually without any evidence tonbacknitnup), Marners dad sure seems to be openly vocal about the process...

Also, Lous silly policies...... urgh

 

[Menzinger]

He scored 13 more even strength goals, it was his PP production that hadn't improved. That's a eye popping jump. That's not a noticeable jump?

Man.

He had 4 more points this year.....

His role on the ice shifted from playmaker to shooter on the line, hence that swap. In where his points were coming from

 

[Mr Hockey]

For all the flack that some folks have tried to dump on Nylander and Matthew's parents (usually without any evidence tonbacknitnup), Marners dad sure seems to be openly vocal about the process...

Also, Lous silly policies...... urgh

yea Lou should just have caved as Dubas has so far ... urgh

 

[DarkKnight]

He had 4 more points this year.....

His role on the ice shifted from playmaker to shooter on the line, hence that swap. In where his points were coming from

I think you need to look at JT's 5 v 5 numbers throughout his career, you might be surprised if the above is what you think.

 

[markh100]

Undoubtedly, Marner and Tavares mutually benefited from one another-pairing the best pure passer in the Leafs in decades with one of the top goal scorers in the league will have that effect. Both set career highs.

Marner scored at a 1.14 points / game pace this season. Marner already proved he was a point a game player at the NHL level last season, once Babcock gave his head a shake, and took him off the fourth line. In the final 53 games of the regular season, he had 53 points. In the final 32 games, he had 36 points, at 1.11 points / game, which is not far off the pace he had this year with Tavares. Going back to game #29 of the season last year, and including both playoffs, Marner has 160 points in his last 149 games.

$10 million is still just 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. A team has to offer $10,148,303 million to make it 4 first round picks. I really, really hope it doesn't come down to that, but you absolutely have to match anything up to that point, and then hope that no team will go over the threshold that requires 4 first round picks as compensation.

It's not just about the production - it's the fact that every single time Mitch has the puck, he does something productive with it. I've not seen anyone else on the Leafs have such a day-in/day-out impact on the game in my life time. He also does amazing things without the puck, and he's a huge disrupter on opposing penalty kills.

 

[Its not your fault]

Marner gets you in the Seth Jones type of Blueline Conversations.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner won’t get OS. It will be a trade if he is not resigning with the Leafs. Even the team that would OS him would want to trade for him instead as the package will be less than 4 1st rounders.
I doubt Marner is playing elsewhere but if there is going to be a trade pls be Marner and Kadri for McDavid.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Undoubtedly, Marner and Tavares mutually benefited from one another-pairing the best pure passer in the Leafs in decades with one of the top goal scorers in the league will have that effect. Both set career highs.

Marner scored at a 1.14 points / game pace this season. Marner already proved he was a point a game player at the NHL level last season, once Babcock gave his head a shake, and took him off the fourth line. In the final 53 games of the regular season, he had 53 points. In the final 32 games, he had 36 points, at 1.11 points / game, which is not far off the pace he had this year with Tavares. Going back to game #29 of the season last year, and including both playoffs, Marner has 160 points in his last 149 games.

$10 million is still just 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. A team has to offer $10,148,303 million to make it 4 first round picks. I really, really hope it doesn't come down to that, but you absolutely have to match anything up to that point, and then hope that no team will go over the threshold that requires 4 first round picks as compensation.

It's not just about the production - it's the fact that every single time Mitch has the puck, he does something productive with it. I've not seen anyone else on the Leafs have such a day-in/day-out impact on the game in my life time. He also does amazing things without the puck, and he's a huge disrupter on opposing penalty kills.

Why though? If someone offersheet 10mil, we match. Problem solved

 

[Menzinger]

yea Lou should just have caved as Dubas has so far ... urgh

There was no reason not to give those bonuses. Marner would have been deserving based on his skill level

It set the guys up for a more antagonistic negotiation during this round of negotiations.

 

[dmac87]

Undoubtedly, Marner and Tavares mutually benefited from one another-pairing the best pure passer in the Leafs in decades with one of the top goal scorers in the league will have that effect. Both set career highs.

Marner scored at a 1.14 points / game pace this season. Marner already proved he was a point a game player at the NHL level last season, once Babcock gave his head a shake, and took him off the fourth line. In the final 53 games of the regular season, he had 53 points. In the final 32 games, he had 36 points, at 1.11 points / game, which is not far off the pace he had this year with Tavares. Going back to game #29 of the season last year, and including both playoffs, Marner has 160 points in his last 149 games.

$10 million is still just 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. A team has to offer $10,148,303 million to make it 4 first round picks. I really, really hope it doesn't come down to that, but you absolutely have to match anything up to that point, and then hope that no team will go over the threshold that requires 4 first round picks as compensation.

It's not just about the production - it's the fact that every single time Mitch has the puck, he does something productive with it. I've not seen anyone else on the Leafs have such a day-in/day-out impact on the game in my life time. He also does amazing things without the puck, and he's a huge disrupter on opposing penalty kills.

Well said. People act like Marner is a byproduct of Tavares but facts are facts. He really he took a giant step in development in his second half of last year and produced at a point per game clip without Tavares.

 

[Notsince67]

The bonus thing was standard under Lou. The only time he waiverd was for Matthews.

He was sent back because the Leafs knew they were going to be historically bad that year, and we were and he had more success and won more in London.

Frankly, this seems like a Paul Marner thing, but if Mitch Marner feels disrespected, when this team and city has done nothing but adore him?

A 7.5 mm offer last summer amounted to a tire kick. Dumb

 

[The Iceman]

At this point I don't really care who is slighted or not. If Marner's contract starts with a 10, fire Dubas because he caved hard.

If Dubas cannot get Marner's contract right, I don't have much hope in him getting the rest of it right. I'd hire Mike Gillis who did a great job in Vancouver, was an agent prior to becoming a GM and knows how to assemble a team within the cap. He deserves a second shot.

In hindsight, the Leafs made a mistake. They should have let Marner play right after be was drafted so last year he would have been up for a contract and cost around 7M. Who knows if he would be the same player if he was rushed though?

Marner shouldn't really feel insulted that he was sent back to the OHL after the draft. He was a scrawny little kid with a lot of talent. We have seen what happens when you rush players. Edmonton rushed RNH and he never really became the player he could have been.

Difference in a 10 x 8, or a 10 x 5. I take a 10 x 8 all day every day.

 

[Pi]

Difference in a 10 x 8, or a 10 x 5. I take a 10 x 8 all day every day.

Sure but Marner might feel that he deserves more for an 8 year term which is outrageous. On a second contract his only comparable would be Ovechkin if he got that kind of dough. He's just not that good enough to warrant being paid more than Kucherov and Stone while buying mainly RFA years.

 

[willmma]

yea Lou should just have caved as Dubas has so far ... urgh

So the fact that Lou didnt cave and didnt give Marner a bonus has helped the negotiations now?

 

[The Iceman]

Our PP struggles because the other teams know they only have to defend the pass, so they stay low and keep the box tight. The Leafs PP will suck again next season because they have no one-timer threat from the wing or point,

Leafs PP was 8th in the league. It hardly sucked.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

If marner (and his parents) are upset the way negotiations went. Too bad. That business and life. Look at all the ads and businesses he's associated with. That family just seem to be money hungry. Paul invested alot in his son's hockey performance and wants to see maximum return. I get it. But to get emotional about it, it's such a bitch move.

He plays anywhere else in the nhl and his endorsement dollars drop significantly.

Wonder if his dad is one of his representatives? Would be a huge mistake on mitch's part. Go ask jack Johnson how well that went for him.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

10x8 is perfectly acceptable for marner.
Borderline a steal imo.

It probably is, but why does Marner do what his other two mates (Nylander, Matthews) didn't? I think the dollars are about right, but the term is likely less e.g. 5 or 6 years.