Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[ULF_55]

Erik Karlsson + Bracco or Marner + Rosen for the same cap usage.

"Build from the goalie out (Andersen), through strong defense (Karlsson, Rielly, Muzzin) and strength down the middle (Matthews, Tavares)".

Seems like classic text book team building 101 to me.

Add in trading Marner before the draft and see if the Devils / Rangers could be inticed into giving up 1st. or 2nd. overall this year for a guaranteed player rather than a hope?

Karlsson + Bracco + Kakko

 

[ULF_55]

Dec 1st 2018....when they signed Nylander.

Then the Matthews deal solidified the term and $ the Leafs must pay.

So let Marner wait Dubas out ... he can sign December 1st. 2019.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

But Jeremy Jacobs runs the league, couldn’t he easily order them to be quiet.

I do like the breach of contract angle, though.

For sure he runs the league. But they could be quiet and stop the flow of money to the NHL at same time. What is Jacobs going to do about it? He does not have the coin to front it. And he is cheaper than cheap. Will he kick Leafs out of league? and if he gets stupid we pop Bruins and let them wallow with the have nots and we play with teams who don't care about the CAP and are not happy either about funding Bettman's promise which never happens this illustrious US TV contract which never seems to materialize. Let the great US TV contract fund these crappy 10 teams which can't fund themselves. Well that promise is about as good as buying a big piece of land in the Everglades. I think people are sick and tired of the BS promise. and know I am.

 

[Nineteen67]

So let Marner wait Dubas out ... he can sign December 1st. 2019.

Not for under 10.5.

Marner needs to hold firm and not accept anything less than 10.5 from Dubas. If Dubas trades him, then he could accept 9 million with his new team.

 

[Nineteen67]

For sure he runs the league. But they could be quiet and stop the flow of money to the NHL at same time. What is Jacobs going to do about it? He does not have the coin to front it. And he is cheaper than cheap. Will he kick Leafs out of league? and if he gets stupid we pop Bruins and let them wallow with the have nots and we play with teams who don't care about the CAP and are not happy either about funding Bettman's promise which never happens this illustrious US TV contract which never seems to materialize. Let the great US TV contract fund these crappy 10 teams which can't fund themselves. Well that promise is about as good as buying a big piece of land in the Everglades. I think people are sick and tired of the BS promise. and know I am.

Did you know there is a collectively bargained agreement?

Let’s assume MLSE breaches the contract....

1. They league would sue them and would win.
2. It would solve Ottawa’s location issue as they would simply relocate to Hamilton for a year or two until their new building is completed.

 

[Mess]

So let Marner wait Dubas out ... he can sign December 1st. 2019.

Marner has Dubas there also in contract negotiations due to the CBA handling of late RFA signings.

Nylander's $6.969 AVV became $10,277,778 AVV in year #1

Marner's $10 mil AAV signed on Dec 1st would be $14-$15 mil in year #1 by the CBA rules.

Leafs can't even afford Mitch for $10 mil without tossing other current bodies overboard for cap reason. Adding another $4-5 mil to his AAV next year would be like launching in a couple of more hand grenades into cap management for the Leafs.

Sign Marner for $10 mil and dump Kadri for futures or sign Marner Dec 1st and dump Kadri + Kapanen + Johnsson for futures.

Marner has the leverage and luxuary and can wait out Dubas and get either what he wants $$ now, or an OS for more on July 1st or force a cap situation by waiting the cannibalizes the Leafs roster on Dec 1st, if the Nylander situation is repeated.

Darren Ferris to Dubas .. " Your move Kyle, were holding a royal flush hand here and all our cards are on the table for you to see".

 

[Menzinger]

If he’s giving up FA years, Marner shouldn’t take any deal from the Leafs less than 10.5.

Why? Better wingers have given up those years for less money...

 

[ToneDog]

Going to have to disagree with you on these two. Marner has produced better on the PP than almost anyone the last few seasons. There are issues with our PP, Marner is not one of them.

I also think that people around NHL, including fans, tend to put too much weight on earning things, and making your dues. I think that's the kind of thinking that holds teams back. If you're the best choice for a job, you should have the job. Willy has been on a strong PP unit once in his career. He lead the league in primary points per hour then. He's a weapon on the PP, and should be used. He's great with skilled players and struggle on a line with grinders. Use him accordingly. The only thing that matters is the good of the team.

Yes, Marner has produced on the PP when others score. Not so easy to set up goals when the opposition has you figured out and closes your passing lanes. For him to be an "elite" PP QB he has to have the threat of a shot. See Patrick Kane or Johnny hockey.

We are talking Babcock, the same guy who has demoted Nylander and Marner to the 4th line at the drop of a hat but never has demoted Marleau or Brown based on play. In fairness to Babs he did try Willie with Matthews but he never gave it enough time. With a reset Nylander has the chance to gain his spot back but he will need to run with it or pretty sure Babs will demote him again.

 

[Menzinger]

Marner has Dubas there also in contract negotiations due to the CBA handling of late RFA signings.

Nylander's $6.969 AVV became $10,277,778 AVV in year #1

Marner's $10 mil AAV signed on Dec 1st would be $14-$15 mil in year #1 by the CBA rules.

Leafs can't even afford Mitch for $10 mil without tossing other current bodies overboard for cap reason. Adding another $4-5 mil to his AAV next year would be like launching in a couple of more hand grenades into cap management for the Leafs.

You're absolutely correct, which means tha Marner lacks the ability to hold out along as Nylander. To do so would guarantee his trade out of Torknto.

Neither Matthew's nor Nylander had any real personal connection to the city, other than seemingly enjoying the team and living here. Marner the childhood Leafs fan may not want to play such a risky strategy, no matter how tough his agent may talk

 

[jrgtml67]

No clue why guys are worried here. No matter what it takes Dubas signs him. I'm sure hes learnt his lesson from the Nylander thing. No chance our best player goes unsigned. They will trade anyone not named

JT, AM, Rielly, Andersen before they dont sign Marner lol

Literally anyone else is expendable. We have Bracco who looks ready possible signing that big Russian winger, we have Sandin and Lily who could crack the D core..but I feel like we may trade guys anyway to get RHD help.

Dont listen to the media fully guys. Their jobs depend on viewers, so while they may not be completely wrong or what not, just take what they say, listen and then use logic.

You really think our best player won't get signed? You don't think Dubas would trade pretty much anyone other than the above players to sign him...damn right he will. If Marner left or isnt signed by early July Dubas is going to have a ton of pissed off fans, ya know the people who pay money. Not a chance we lose Marner 0.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Did you know there is a collectively bargained agreement?

Let’s assume MLSE breaches the contract....

1. They league would sue them and would win.
2. It would solve Ottawa’s location issue as they would simply relocate to Hamilton for a year or two until their new building is completed.

Yes they could sue and yes they would win. But it would be in the courts for years. Big money corporations just smother the little guys. The Leafs would be smart about it with Habs and Rangers onside. It would take down the league inside 2 years. and they would then offer tea leaves to maybe another 15 teams and start a new league. Jacobs would get squashed like a bug on the windshield.

 

[Menzinger]

Marner should never be off our PP1 unit. What I'd like to see would be a real top unit - not a split - and then have Marner run it from behind the net. Nylander to the left, Tavares around the net, Matthews to the right. Rielly patrol the point.

It's been done with great success in lower leagues. I've seen it personally, and loved it. What it does is that you force the PK to defend against shooters behind their backs, which will create lots of opportunity for soft areas that the mid lane can move into. For the above, Willy and Matthews can shoot from their off-wings, Tavares can be a threat in close and for rebounds. We also have four guys who can QB from each side of the net. Add some decent movement on top of that, and I think it could be revolutionary.

Funny enough the Marlies seemingly run their pp1 unit as long as physically possible

 

[Nineteen67]

Why? Better wingers have given up those years for less money...

In the free market, absolutely. Under the Leafs structure it’s a different story.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes they could sue and yes they would win. But it would be in the courts for years. Big money corporations just smother the little guys. The Leafs would be smart about it with Habs and Rangers onside. It would take down the league inside 2 years. and they would then offer tea leaves to maybe another 15 teams and start a new league. Jacobs would get squashed like a bug on the windshield.

You’re talking actually committing a major crime, not just thumbing their nose. I’m on board now as that’ll be more entertaining than anything they’ve put on the ice in the past 20 years. Someone the Leafs and Rangers have to throw the Habs under the bus and they all end up going to jail.

To think, all this because Kyle Dubas couldn’t say no to William Nylander.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No clue why guys are worried here. No matter what it takes Dubas signs him. I'm sure hes learnt his lesson from the Nylander thing. No chance our best player goes unsigned. They will trade anyone not named

JT, AM, Rielly, Andersen before they dont sign Marner lol

Literally anyone else is expendable. We have Bracco who looks ready possible signing that big Russian winger, we have Sandin and Lily who could crack the D core..but I feel like we may trade guys anyway to get RHD help.

Dont listen to the media fully guys. Their jobs depend on viewers, so while they may not be completely wrong or what not, just take what they say, listen and then use logic.

You really think our best player won't get signed? You don't think Dubas would trade pretty much anyone other than the above players to sign him...damn right he will. If Marner left or isnt signed by early July Dubas is going to have a ton of pissed off fans, ya know the people who pay money. Not a chance we lose Marner 0.

Nobody is worried he won’t sign. The real legitimate worry is the contract he signs for.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You’re talking actually committing a major crime, not just thumbing their nose. I’m on board now as that’ll be more entertaining than anything they’ve put on the ice in the past 20 years. Someone the Leafs and Rangers have to throw the Habs under the bus and they all end up going to jail.

To think, all this because Kyle Dubas couldn’t say no to William Nylander.

We are just joking around here as Leafs would be risking their entire franchise value which Bell and Rogers would never do. But I am sick and tired of Jacobs wielding his powers and screwing over Leafs who fund the NHL. We roll over and take it. He knows with some many weak teams wanting the money all he really has to do is control the middling teams and he maintains his control over the league. The Leafs Habs and Rangers fund the entire masqarade. In a lot of ways he is genius. and he laughs at us all the way to the bank.

 

[4thline]

Marner's $10 mil AAV signed on Dec 1st would be $14-$15 mil in year #1 by the CBA rules.

Leafs can't even afford Mitch for $10 mil without tossing other current bodies overboard for cap reason. Adding another $4-5 mil to his AAV next year would be like launching in a couple of more hand grenades into cap management for the Leafs.

That's not how it works. The 10 million would be prorated over the shorter season resulting in the daily cap hit of a 14-15 million dollar player, but he still only counts 10 million against the cap for the year. As long as we didn't fill the cap space from hold out we'd be banking it to be paid out once the contract is signed. The important thing would be to dump Horton.

 

[ULF_55]

Not for under 10.5.

Marner needs to hold firm and not accept anything less than 10.5 from Dubas. If Dubas trades him, then he could accept 9 million with his new team.

I'd be okay with a trade if it improves the overall team.

 

[ULF_55]

Did you know there is a collectively bargained agreement?

Let’s assume MLSE breaches the contract....

1. They league would sue them and would win.
2. It would solve Ottawa’s location issue as they would simply relocate to Hamilton for a year or two until their new building is completed.

Actually, they can legally stop the flow of money ... implement a Marner discount and reduce all ticket prices by half.

It is HRR that is key, they could make money through some other means and keep it separate from HRR.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No clue why guys are worried here. No matter what it takes Dubas signs him. I'm sure hes learnt his lesson from the Nylander thing. No chance our best player goes unsigned. They will trade anyone not named

You really think our best player won't get signed? You don't think Dubas would trade pretty much anyone other than the above players to sign him...damn right he will. If Marner left or isnt signed by early July Dubas is going to have a ton of pissed off fans, ya know the people who pay money. Not a chance we lose Marner 0.

Marner's my favourite player and for me, he's among my 3 favourite Leafs to watch all-time along with Gilmour and Salming. Having said that, team success is more important to me than anything else and I'll be pissed off if we overpay him. If he asks for too much money and we have to move on from him because of that sure I'll be pissed but it won't be at Dubas.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner has Dubas there also in contract negotiations due to the CBA handling of late RFA signings.

Nylander's $6.969 AVV became $10,277,778 AVV in year #1

Marner's $10 mil AAV signed on Dec 1st would be $14-$15 mil in year #1 by the CBA rules.

Leafs can't even afford Mitch for $10 mil without tossing other current bodies overboard for cap reason. Adding another $4-5 mil to his AAV next year would be like launching in a couple of more hand grenades into cap management for the Leafs.

Sign Marner for $10 mil and dump Kadri for futures or sign Marner Dec 1st and dump Kadri + Kapanen + Johnsson for futures.

Marner has the leverage and luxuary and can wait out Dubas and get either what he wants $$ now, or an OS for more on July 1st or force a cap situation by waiting the cannibalizes the Leafs roster on Dec 1st, if the Nylander situation is repeated.

Darren Ferris to Dubas .. " Your move Kyle, were holding a royal flush hand here and all our cards are on the table for you to see".

They can let him sit the season, sign him next year when Marleau is gone.

 

[ULF_55]

You’re talking actually committing a major crime, not just thumbing their nose. I’m on board now as that’ll be more entertaining than anything they’ve put on the ice in the past 20 years. Someone the Leafs and Rangers have to throw the Habs under the bus and they all end up going to jail.

To think, all this because Kyle Dubas couldn’t say no to William Nylander.

Has nothing to do with Nylander, who has a very manageable contract.

Overpaying Marner by 2 million is the concern.

 

[supermann_98]

He shouldn't make any more than Rantanen.

... or Point who plays center and scores significantly more goals

 

[Mess]

They can let him sit the season, sign him next year when Marleau is gone.

Seems like even more incentive for Marner to sign an offersheet if Dubas plans on having him sit the year.

Mitch wouldn't want to miss out on his $10 mil.

So while Dubas is saying its "imperative" he get Mitch signed before July 1st, Marner might say its "imperative" you get me signed by Dec 1st.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Actually, they can legally stop the flow of money ... implement a Marner discount and reduce all ticket prices by half.

It is HRR that is key, they could make money through some other means and keep it separate from HRR.

They could but why would they with a 20+ year list of people who want tickets and would jump on mine if i let them come up.
All they would have to do is drop season tickets and increase MLSE sponsorship fees at the rink including box fees and licenses which are not hockey related but sports related. and even if questioned just allocate differently between Raps and Leafs so Leafs hockey related gets a huge benefit. Maybe they even do that now.