Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Cor]

Looking at it, there isn't a single comparable that warrants Marner making over 9.5M.

If some team wants to offer-sheet him at 11M+ and give us four first rounders, so be it.

It would suck, I've watched Marner every game since he was with the Knights, when I lived in London, to obviously the past three seasons with the Leafs, but if some team out there wants to be crazy, then so be it

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Take Marner off of it?

Take Kadri off it was what I requested.

Kadri taking himself off the PP doesnt count.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Marner QB'd a terrible PP since December. Not singling you out but I find the term "elite" is used very loosely by Leaf fans. Sorry but I do not agree that Marner is an "elite" PP QB until he develops a shot. Personally I think he should shoulder some of the blame for our 90 lb "enforcer" because he does not have a good enough shot and is too predictable and hence easily shutdown by "elite" PKers.

Nylander did nothing to earn ice time and PP1 minutes. Good thing is he gets a reset at training camp.

Going to have to disagree with you on these two. Marner has produced better on the PP than almost anyone the last few seasons. There are issues with our PP, Marner is not one of them.

I also think that people around NHL, including fans, tend to put too much weight on earning things, and making your dues. I think that's the kind of thinking that holds teams back. If you're the best choice for a job, you should have the job. Willy has been on a strong PP unit once in his career. He lead the league in primary points per hour then. He's a weapon on the PP, and should be used. He's great with skilled players and struggle on a line with grinders. Use him accordingly. The only thing that matters is the good of the team.

 

[ULF_55]

Is Marner off to the worlds?

I don't see his name there yet.

Someone who scores 90 points should be there.

 

[Mess]

We trade the lower players first to get to the cap
Then if that’s not enough and we have to trade a high end player
Who do you think the leafs would trade if push comes to shove

Tavares
Matthews
Marner
Nylander

Again if one of the big 4 had to go do you actually think it would be Marner.

Marner is the only one not under contract and the only one susceptible to an Offersheet.

Even if you do trade the lower end players it doesn't change the fact that those 4 forwards once Mitch is signed will consume nearly 1/2 of Leafs total salary cap. There is no team anywhere close to that situation and its that top heavy expensive forwards my post was addressing.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Like what? Take Marner off of it? I’m sure that woulda gone over well on here.

Marner should never be off our PP1 unit. What I'd like to see would be a real top unit - not a split - and then have Marner run it from behind the net. Nylander to the left, Tavares around the net, Matthews to the right. Rielly patrol the point.

It's been done with great success in lower leagues. I've seen it personally, and loved it. What it does is that you force the PK to defend against shooters behind their backs, which will create lots of opportunity for soft areas that the mid lane can move into. For the above, Willy and Matthews can shoot from their off-wings, Tavares can be a threat in close and for rebounds. We also have four guys who can QB from each side of the net. Add some decent movement on top of that, and I think it could be revolutionary.

 

[Deebo]

Is Marner off to the worlds?

I don't see his name there yet.

Someone who scores 90 points should be there.

He isn't going because of the contract situation.

 

[Mess]

HEs not gonna out earn kucherov there bud marner is a phenomenal hockey player but I stand by 9-9.5x 6-8

If Marner gets $9.5 mil X 6 (4 X RFA years + 2 UFA year) vs Kucherov $9.5 mil X 8 years (8 X UFA years), then Marner's contract is significantly more and less value than Kuch based on years of service and the types of years purchased even if the actual AAV is identical.

Its the same reason Matthews $11.634 for only 5 years is a real poor deal for the Leafs in comparison to Edmonton getting McDavid for $12.5 mil X 8 or Buffalo locking up Eichel at $10 mil X 8.

 

[Mess]

Is Marner off to the worlds?

I don't see his name there yet.

Someone who scores 90 points should be there.

No he declined due to contract status and risk of injury.

If Dubas gets Mitch signed in the next week, that might change as JT is there and will need his winger.

 

[Nineteen67]

If Marner gets $9.5 mil X 6 (4 X RFA years + 2 UFA year) vs Kucherov $9.5 mil X 8 years (8 X UFA years), then Marner's contract is significantly more and less value than Kuch based on years of service and the types of years purchased even if the actual AAV is identical.

Its the same reason Matthews $11.634 for only 5 years is a real poor deal for the Leafs in comparison to Edmonton getting McDavid for $12.5 mil X 8 or Buffalo locking up Eichel at $10 mil X 8.

If he’s giving up FA years, Marner shouldn’t take any deal from the Leafs less than 10.5.

 

[ULF_55]

No he declined due to contract status and risk of injury.

If Dubas gets Mitch signed in the next week, that might change as JT is there and will need his winger.

Oh, have other Leafs not gone because of contracts?
How about last year did any go without a contract?

 

[supermann_98]

Looking at it, there isn't a single comparable that warrants Marner making over 9.5M.

If some team wants to offer-sheet him at 11M+ and give us four first rounders, so be it.

It would suck, I've watched Marner every game since he was with the Knights, when I lived in London, to obviously the past three seasons with the Leafs, but if some team out there wants to be crazy, then so be it

Yep, take the 4 first rounders and sign Panarin and call it a day.

 

[ULF_55]

If he’s giving up FA years, Marner shouldn’t take any deal from the Leafs less than 10.5.

He shouldn't make any more than Rantanen.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yep, take the 4 first rounders and sign Panarin and call it a day.

Panarin will be gone by the time Marner signs an OS.....

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner has to be locked in before July 1st when the Nylander sweepstakes starts.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

4 lower 1st rounders is not enough. 4 top 10 picks sure I'm game. But teams who will go for Marner must have all 4 of their own picks for next 4 years. Many of top teams have traded away picks and do not have cap space for him. So more than likely it is a bubble team who gets into playoffs because of him and we get 4 lower end picks. I still think the odds are massively unlikely he gets OSed. Everyone knows Leafs will match and make other changes. And then team that does it will start to have problems with Leafs in many other areas. It will also set off another round of war at the NHL league board level when transfer payments and Bettman's CAP system come up. No one wants Leafs (who are the cash cow on the NHL) to be fighting over who gets what. And all they have to do is stop the money from flowing and Bettman is in deep sh*t. Some teams could fold as a result.

 

[Nineteen67]

He shouldn't make any more than Rantanen.

That went out the window on Dec 1st....

 

[ULF_55]

Marner has to be locked in before July 1st when the Nylander sweepstakes starts.

Only if it is a reasonable deal.

If he has to be paid like Matthews, let another team pay it.

 

[ULF_55]

That went out the window on Dec 1st....

Okay, so let him sign on December 1st.

 

[Mess]

Yep, take the 4 first rounders and sign Panarin and call it a day.

What about instead of giving Marner the $10-$11 mil you give it to UFA RHD Erik Karlsson instead?

Combining your $11 mil centres with your $11 mil #1D man joining Rielly on the top Leafs pairing. Karlsson could even replace Mitch on the point on the PP.

or

Signing Marner $10-11 mil and forced to make Justin Holl and Jake Rosen regulars on the Dcore next year replacing Gardiner and Hainsey departing as UFAs for cap reasons

"Build from the goalie out (Andersen), through strong defense (Karlsson, Rielly, Muzzin) and strength down the middle (Matthews, Tavares)". Seems like classic text book team building.

Cap management utilization among positions the moral of the story here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner should never be off our PP1 unit. What I'd like to see would be a real top unit - not a split - and then have Marner run it from behind the net. Nylander to the left, Tavares around the net, Matthews to the right. Rielly patrol the point.

It's been done with great success in lower leagues. I've seen it personally, and loved it. What it does is that you force the PK to defend against shooters behind their backs, which will create lots of opportunity for soft areas that the mid lane can move into. For the above, Willy and Matthews can shoot from their off-wings, Tavares can be a threat in close and for rebounds. We also have four guys who can QB from each side of the net. Add some decent movement on top of that, and I think it could be revolutionary.

I remember you mentioning this earlier and I've been drooling over this possibility ever since.

 

[ULF_55]

What about instead of giving Marner the $10-$11 mil you give it to UFA RHD Erik Karlsson instead?

Combining your $11 mil centres with your $11 mil #1D man joining Rielly on the top Leafs pairing.

Karlsson could even replace Mitch on the point on the PP.

or

Signing Marner $10-11 mil and forced to make Justin Holl and Jake Rosen regulars on the Dcore next year replacing Gardiner and Hainsey departing as UFAs for cap reasons

Cap management utilization among positions the moral of the story here.

So many are so high on Bracco. Marner light?

Bracco and a true #1 d-man
or
Marner

Is that what you're asking?

 

[Nineteen67]

4 lower 1st rounders is not enough. 4 top 10 picks sure I'm game. But teams who will go for Marner must have all 4 of their own picks for next 4 years. Many of top teams have traded away picks and do not have cap space for him. So more than likely it is a bubble team who gets into playoffs because of him and we get 4 lower end picks. I still think the odds are massively unlikely he gets OSed. Everyone knows Leafs will match and make other changes. And then team that does it will start to have problems with Leafs in many other areas. It will also set off another round of war at the NHL league board level when transfer payments and Bettman's CAP system come up. No one wants Leafs (who are the cash cow on the NHL) to be fighting over who gets what. And all they have to do is stop the money from flowing and Bettman is in deep sh*t. Some teams could fold as a result.

But Jeremy Jacobs runs the league, couldn’t he easily order them to be quiet.

I do like the breach of contract angle, though.

 

[Mess]

So many are so high on Bracco. Marner light?

Bracco and a true #1 d-man
or
Marner

Is that what you're asking?

Erik Karlsson + Bracco or Marner + Rosen for the same cap usage.

"Build from the goalie out (Andersen), through strong defense (Karlsson, Rielly, Muzzin) and strength down the middle (Matthews, Tavares & even Kadri)".

Seems like classic text book team building 101 to me and cap management 101.

Depends on if one thinks Plan A or Plan B is the preferred Dcore depending on if you want Marner resigned.(with the luxuary of $ X 1st) comp picks with OS loss.

Plan A (+ 4 X 1st round comp picks)
Rielly -- Karlsson
Muzzin -- Zaitsev
Dermott -- Rosen

or

Plan B
Rielly --- Zaitsev
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott -- Rosen

 

[Nineteen67]

Okay, so let him sign on December 1st.

Dec 1st 2018....when they signed Nylander.

Then the Matthews deal solidified the term and $ the Leafs must pay.