Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[HoweHullOrr]

I would include a 1st. round pick to move Marleau.

IMO it is worth it to recover the cap.

Especially if Marner is drastically over paid.

Might need to. Cost of doing business I guess .....

 

[diceman934]

McKenzie weighs in on the chances Marner signs the same deal as Matthews

That is old news the day after Mathews signed.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

1) Marner definitely improved.
2) He put up a 90 point pace because our PP1 got smoking hot. His even strength production improved significantly from playing with Kadri to Tavares.
3) I addressed the point about outscoring in the very post you quoted.
4) I have not made any claim that Tavares carried him. In fact, I pointed out that none of them did. I just find it silly that some claim Tavares has not helped Marner at all.
5) What obscenely obscure stats are you referencing? I'm pretty sure Marner will be doing well in them regardless.
5) Nylander has nothing to do with the topic. But yes, obviously playing with a franchise center helps. That's why Matthews and Nylander was one of the best producing even strength duos in the league last year.

2) He was the major reason the PP was smoking hot.
Ovi has scored over 38% of his career on the PP, does that take away from being Ovi??? (1211GP - 464 PPP)

4) "but it seems clear to me which one is benefiting most" seems to imply different. As in Marner can't put up these numbers without JT, when he already has...... great PP1 is not a negative.

5) Wasn't about you personally. Just in general, although you do like your adjusted stats.

6) If JT boosted Marner to 94 points, than Matthews boosted Willy to 60 right? And if were talking about ES, don't forget Mitch had 70 ES points this year....... Matthews career pt high is 73.

 

[diceman934]

2) He was the major reason the PP was smoking hot.
Ovi has scored over 38% of his career on the PP, does that take away from being Ovi??? (1211GP - 464 PPP)

4) "but it seems clear to me which one is benefiting most" seems to imply different. As in Marner can't put up these numbers without JT, when he already has...... great PP1 is not a negative.

5) Wasn't about you personally. Just in general, although you do like your adjusted stats.

6) If JT boosted Marner to 94 points, than Matthews boosted Willy to 60 right? And if were talking about ES, don't forget Mitch had 70 ES points this year....... Matthews career pt high is 73.

Mitch was among the best in scoring at even strength in the League top 5 and that along with playing on the shut down line and on the pk makes him playing very hard minutes and succeeding.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You will really lose it if Muzzin walks next summer eh?

Ya, we will have many players to resign over the next 5 or 6 years. Its cyclical like so many other things. I'd doubt that our cap woes will magically disappear altogether.

 

[saffronleaf]

You should have watched the games

I did, and he was rather pathetic. Blocked a couple of shots though, good job.

 

[Notsince67]

I did, and he was rather pathetic. Blocked a couple of shots though, good job.

Yeah? Name 2 pathetic plays.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Yeah. I'm getting that there are a few here that constantly try to diminish Marner. The kid had a good year and I will laugh even harder next year when he outperforms this one.

You can name the posters that are running Marner down and saying trade him. Go look at their posts. They are huge nylander defenders. For some reason their fair haired boy shat the bed and is way overpaid so they have to try to bring Marner down. These are the same posters that tried to make you believe that Marner and Nylander are/were close in terms of skill.

One guy is over a ppg, kills penalties, runs the power play
Has made jvr bozak Hyman Kadri and now Tavares have career years when they were on his line. Has a non stop motor, digs in the corner, plays with determination and is matched against the other teams first line and 1/2 dmen on a nightly basis.

The other guy is a soft perimeter player who has great zone entries
And has the most stick check takeaways in the neutral zone on the team. Hasn’t scored more than 20 goals and is paid above his peers based on what he might become but isn’t there yet and if he continues playing scared may never get there.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Tavares the elite goal scorer got paired with Marner the elite playmaker.

This resulted in Tavares getting FAR more goals than he’s ever gotten, and Marner getting FAR more points.

Tavares career average in goals is 30 (34 if you minus out injury seasons) He just scored 47.

Tavares will admit it himself. He has never had so many easy tap in goals in his career. There is a reason for this. He came to Toronto because it was his dream but the video that they put together with Marner really sold him

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Although a lot of fans won't like it, but it might be in the Leafs best interest long-term if another team does OS Marner to an amount that Leafs simply can't match. It might save the Leafs GM from himself.

Leafs not spending the $10 mil + themselves, but getting 4 X 1st round picks in exchange goes a long way to find quality young and cheap talent from the draft and build around the teams 2 X big #1Cs.

That cap space saved invested in improving the team around JT and AM.

If we're trading 2019 1st X 2 X former 2nd round picked prospects for Muzzin, and another 2020 1st to dump Marleau then where is all these surrounding players going to come from after AM + JT + MM + WN eat up 1/2 the cap for just 4 X forwards?

Losing MM to an offersheet would give the Leafs some breathing room and free cap to try and build up and improve the Dcore and have 4 X 1st rounders in the pipeline over time.

We trade the lower players first to get to the cap
Then if that’s not enough and we have to trade a high end player
Who do you think the leafs would trade if push comes to shove

Tavares
Matthews
Marner
Nylander

Again if one of the big 4 had to go do you actually think it would be Marner.

 

[egd27]

You will really lose it if Muzzin walks next summer eh?

Of course not, that was a Dubas deal, and he's young and smart.

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh the subtle jabs from the same people who have never said one bad word about Willie. Amusing.

 

[glue]

Ultimately we'll have to see how this all pans out, but I'm not sure how Leafs will be better with 'increased depth' as Babcock said he would like to see next year, if Marner signs a 10.5 or 11 mil contract. Anxiously waiting to see what happens next....

 

[DarkKnight]

JT scored an eye popping 13 more even strength goals than his previous high. Clearly he was carrying Marner.

And as an aside, talented players on other teams play with talented players, it's kind of how it works.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

6) If JT boosted Marner to 94 points, than Matthews boosted Willy to 60 right? And if were talking about ES, don't forget Mitch had 70 ES points this year....... Matthews career pt high is 73.

Nope. It doesn’t go both ways.

Anything that makes individual leaf players look better is how everyone here will look at it. There is no even attempt at consistency.

 

[Dragao6]

I could see a 6 year deal here if all goes well. That puts his contract expiring same time as tavares which would allow 16 to get another raise with freed up cap $$. Allows 16 to prove also hes a consistant 90 pt guy and hopefully can also produce in playoffs. To me makes sense 6 years 9.5 AVV.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Give him the "C" if he signs 8 years and also for blocking those shots in the playoffs

 

[Dragao6]

2) He was the major reason the PP was smoking hot.
Ovi has scored over 38% of his career on the PP, does that take away from being Ovi??? (1211GP - 464 PPP)

4) "but it seems clear to me which one is benefiting most" seems to imply different. As in Marner can't put up these numbers without JT, when he already has...... great PP1 is not a negative.

5) Wasn't about you personally. Just in general, although you do like your adjusted stats.

6) If JT boosted Marner to 94 points, than Matthews boosted Willy to 60 right? And if were talking about ES, don't forget Mitch had 70 ES points this year....... Matthews career pt high is 73.

Well were comparing awesome players so it's a nice conversation but
First.. our pp1 was not hot, maybe for the first month but after the start it was ugly. If it was hot we would have easily beaten Boston
2nd..
Matthew's

3 yrs

NHL

212

111

94

205

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

Marner

3 yrs

NHL

241

67

157

224

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

That's the career, marner is my fav player but I know who I would pick for a franchise, specially when it's a C vs a RW. Scoring is the hardest thing to do in hockey I believe
The career high its, if you ignore the missed games unfortunatly by 34 then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Deebo]

Of course not, that was a Dubas deal, and he's young and smart.

1.5 years of a top d-man vs. a few weeks of a 4th liners. These deals are not comparable. Some of us evaluate deals on merit, not based on how old the GM is.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

So? Kucherov was a 2nd rounder and had a 100pts season. Marner just had 94pts. Kuch is 25 MM is 21. This guys getting 10m x 5 bud. Dubas doesn't even factor RFA years.

HEs not gonna out earn kucherov there bud marner is a phenomenal hockey player but I stand by 9-9.5x 6-8

 

[Kiwi]

Oh the subtle jabs from the same people who have never said one bad word about Willie. Amusing.

Oh the subtle jabs of the people that called themselves impartial but are nothing of the sort

Marner is a fine player, very few people on here have actually written he isn't but pointing out he doesn't deserve Matthews money (neither did Matthews) isn't exactly controversial

The same people that were complaining for months about overpaying players now want to overpay Marner, comparables or any other winger in the league (UFA or not) be damned

Get some bloody consistency, if he won't sign something acceptable and you can get "fair value" back trade him

I'd say the same thing about Nylander (once he's improved his value again) or Matthews

This is business, not i like this guy so let's play pretend about my options for the last 6 months

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh the subtle jabs of the people that called themselves impartial but are nothing of the sort

Marner is a fine player, very few people on here have actually written he isn't but pointing out he doesn't deserve Matthews money (neither did Matthews) isn't exactly controversial

The same people that were complaining for months about overpaying players now want to overpay Marner, comparables or any other winger in the league (UFA or not) be damned

Get some bloody consistency, if he won't sign something acceptable and you can get "fair value" back trade him

I'd say the same thing about Nylander (once he's improved his value again) or Matthews

This is business, not i like this guy so let's play pretend about my options for the last 6 months

Who said he deserves Matthews money? I didn't think Matthews deserved Matthews money on a scant 5 years deal.

Who says anyone is fine with over paying Marner, thinking it will happen and being okay with it aren't the same thing.

Your rant has nothing to do with me. Cheers.

 

[Notsince67]

Well were comparing awesome players so it's a nice conversation but
First.. our pp1 was not hot, maybe for the first month but after the start it was ugly. If it was hot we would have easily beaten Boston
2nd..
Matthew's

3 yrs

NHL

212

111

94

205

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

Marner

3 yrs

NHL

241

67

157

224

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

That's the career, marner is my fav player but I know who I would pick for a franchise, specially when it's a C vs a RW. Scoring is the hardest thing to do in hockey I believe
The career high its, if you ignore the missed games unfortunatly by 34 then I dont know what to tell you.

How many games does Matthews miss next year?

 

[killer1980]

There have been very few Leafs in my life that I would say mean much more than a $. Dave Keon was one and I would say Sittler the other, I could include Sundin if pressed. They epitomize what being a Leaf is all about, not just to the team, but to the fans, the community, and the kids. Marner, to my way of thinking, is one of those guys that comes along once in a generation. Sign him!

 

[Badhands]

One thing that worries me is if they wait until after July 1st. Marners camp is definitely going to be watching Panarin and if he signs for 11m+ that just strengthens their case for marner. I like the option of a 3 year deal around 9-9.5m that makes him a RFA still when that deal ends. But could bump the price up to 12-14 for the next contract if he stays at this pace and a reward for taking less money now to get paid later. Cap increases factor in as well.