Salary Cap: Marner contract signing watch discussion.

[Kamiccolo]

Do you expect Tavares to be the same player in 6 years from now? I wouldn't bank on it.

I'd bank on Matthews being as good if not better in 5 though...

Then he can sign a deal valued appropriately. Leafs are the only team to pay guys for what their potential is rather than their current ability.

In 5 years Matthews will ask for an even bigger contract or walk.

 

[Legion34]

When Gross said that he was likely talking about that specific negotiation with Nylander. In Nylander's negotiation their only leg to stand on was the amount the other guys were going to be paid compared to him.

I assume that it is different for every situation, for every player. Player's camp will bring up anything that makes value look higher, team will bring up whatever makes value look lower.

No it wasn't? they werent signed? Marner still isn't signed.... Nylanders leg to stand on was multiple comparables that were all between 8.25-9 percent of the cap.......

He had a very unique situation where he was already a millionaire, who had a dad who was difficult and had moved/been traded etc..... AND they had tons of cap space to where he could wait.

With the leafs cap, if he doesnt sign before the season, he wont fit

 

[BAM]

A bit more for Rantanen due to timing.

Marner can easily say, and should say, you just lad AM 11.6 and I’m just as good, or perhaps better. Pay me the same. If you don’t I’ll give the discount to another team.

They had similar ppg this past year with one playing with 2 rookie middle 6 wingers that couldn't break 50 points and the other with a franchise C. Matthews has had the better ELC production as well and is a center who get paid more historically.

Matthews is better than Marner

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What? That a RFA should make less than a UFA? Yes I do.

That Tavares from age 28 to 34 is worth more than Matthews from 22 to 27. Or that paying Tavares for his 32-34 year old seasons actually makes the contract better. You really couldn't be more wrong, and I'm not sure what gives you that impression

 

[Legion34]

A bit more for Rantanen due to timing.

Marner can easily say, and should say, you just lad AM 11.6 and I’m just as good, or perhaps better. Pay me the same. If you don’t I’ll give the discount to another team.

And they can say fine..... Go move. Become hated in your own hometown...... Do you really think his parents are going to be in commercials in Carolina? Really?

Matthews has scored twice as many goals in 30 less games. Marner doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of any advanced stats. Marner has been healthier....

 

[Bomber0104]

Then he can sign a deal valued appropriately. Leafs are the only team to pay guys for what their potential is rather than their current ability.

In 5 years Matthews will ask for an even bigger contract or walk.

What we just saw from Matthews is him and his agent maximizing his career earnings.

No different than what we saw from Tavares last off-season.

 

[Nineteen67]

And they can say fine..... Go move. Become hated in your own hometown...... Do you really think his parents are going to be in commercials in Carolina? Really?

Matthews has scored twice as many goals in 30 less games. Marner doesn't have a leg to stand on in terms of any advanced stats. Marner has been healthier....

They won’t need to do any commercials. Why do extra work when you’re cashing 60 million.

 

[Kamiccolo]

What we just saw from Matthews is him and his agent maximizing his career earnings.

No different than what we saw from Tavares last off-season.

Yup for sure. That's his goal and he will do that. Which is why I blame Dubas, who's job is to set expectations in reality and prove to them what his worth is compared to the market and not offer terrible value deals.

I like his drafting, I don't mind his trades. However anyone claiming that Dubas hasn't completely botched the signing of the young core is out to lunch and should consider setting down their Leaf tinted glasses.

 

[6ix]

If you think Tavares in anyway was why the Leafs didn't win the first round, I just absolutely can't agree with you.

He is not why we lost, but he needed to be the reason we won. By signing Tavares that’s a message the rebuild is over and it’s time to win playoff rounds. Now we’re going to have 40 mill tied up in 4 forwards.

It will be tough to ice a well rounded team because of that.

 

[Legion34]

They won’t need to do any commercials. Why do extra work when you’re cashing 60 million.

I think they love being part of all of it.... I think it is as much about them being "stars" as him...... Have you ever seen a player with as many side deals, who's dad gets interviewed, and his mom is on commercials? They want his fame as much as he does

 

[18leafsfan18]

No it wasn't? they werent signed? Marner still isn't signed.... Nylanders leg to stand on was multiple comparables that were all between 8.25-9 percent of the cap.......

He had a very unique situation where he was already a millionaire, who had a dad who was difficult and had moved/been traded etc..... AND they had tons of cap space to where he could wait.

With the leafs cap, if he doesnt sign before the season, he wont fit

So your saying Nylander's camp didn't use the upcoming contracts to Matthews and Marner as something to increase his value.

That was well documented by multiple insiders.

 

[18leafsfan18]

He is not why we lost, but he needed to be the reason we won. By signing Tavares that’s a message the rebuild is over and it’s time to win playoff rounds. Now we’re going to have 40 mill tied up in 4 forwards.

It will be tough to ice a well rounded team because of that.

So PP being absolutely crap and PK being absolute crap didn't matter. Tavares was the problem ?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Why don't you try this one again? Explain why Tavares in his 30s is worth more than Matthews in his prime

Because you are ignoring every factor and nailing a single point. JT was paid based on his ability the day it was signed. He had the ability to negotiate with multiple teams at once.

Matthews should be paid based on being a RFA and not having any leverage, including arbitration. He should be paid like every other RFA in history, which is less than a UFA.

How about you explain why the concept of RFA and UFA only doesn't apply to the Leafs? Are you expecting Rielly to take less on his next deal because it will pay him into his 30's? How about Andersen?

I know you understand hockey better than this so the fact you choose to play dumb and pretend to not understand how every single contract has been negotiated since the cap came in is frustrating.

 

[18leafsfan18]

He was a good shut down center in the series ... our 11 AAV guy shut down their 7 AAV guy

And who's decision was that to have him play a shutdown role in the playoffs.... Maybe it was the coach ?

 

[Nineteen67]

I think they love being part of all of it.... I think it is as much about them being "stars" as him...... Have you ever seen a player with as many side deals, who's dad gets interviewed, and his mom is on commercials? They want his fame as much as he does

Other than the apple deal with AM I’ve seen or heard one of his ads.

 

[6ix]

So PP being absolutely crap and PK being absolute crap didn't matter. Tavares was the problem ?

Power play, absolutely. He can’t expect tap ins from Marner in the playoffs. He was real bad on the PP.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I wouldn’t take a discount to play in Toronto when they didn’t give him max ELC bonus and WM and AM were paid without taking a bonus. You wouldn’t either, especially if you’re better than them.

He's not better than Matthews. Full stop. But lets not derail into that. I agree there's no way Marner's taking a discount but in your scenario he takes a discount on another team just to spite the Leafs, which is crazy. If Marner moves on its to sign the contract he wants somewhere that can offer it.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Power play, absolutely. He can’t expect tap ins from Marner in the playoffs. He was real bad on the PP.

What I meant by that post was that Tavares was not the problem of why the Leafs lost in the first round.

It was multiple things, including bad PP (Team) and bad PK (Team).

I read my original post and I didn't explain that properly.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Because you are ignoring every factor and nailing a single point. JT was paid based on his ability the day it was signed. He had the ability to negotiate with multiple teams at once.

Matthews should be paid based on being a RFA and not having any leverage, including arbitration. He should be paid like every other RFA in history, which is less than a UFA.

How about you explain why the concept of RFA and UFA only doesn't apply to the Leafs? Are you expecting Rielly to take less on his next deal because it will pay him into his 30's? How about Andersen?

I know you understand hockey better than this so the fact you choose to play dumb and pretend to not understand how every single contract has been negotiated since the cap came in is frustrating.

If I'm such a Dubas fanboy as you're trying to claim, why am I criticizing the Tavares deal? Paying him 11 million when he's 32-34 is a bad thing, and I don't like it. That still doesn't address my question as to why those years for Tavares are more valuable than Matthews' prime years. RFA vs UFA contracts is an aspect in negotiations, but it's not everything. It's getting less and less important, even around the league. Everyone can see that RFAs are historically underpaid and UFAs are generally overpaid, so some correction is due anyway

 

[DanM]

Because you are ignoring every factor and nailing a single point. JT was paid based on his ability the day it was signed. He had the ability to negotiate with multiple teams at once.

Matthews should be paid based on being a RFA and not having any leverage, including arbitration. He should be paid like every other RFA in history, which is less than a UFA.

How about you explain why the concept of RFA and UFA only doesn't apply to the Leafs? Are you expecting Rielly to take less on his next deal because it will pay him into his 30's? How about Andersen?

I know you understand hockey better than this so the fact you choose to play dumb and pretend to not understand how every single contract has been negotiated since the cap came in is frustrating.

The concept of RFA and UFA will not exist in the NHL going forward, and you will see it in this years RFA deals.

This is a league thing, and not a Leaf thing, Dubas just had the honour of being first up with this new crop of players and contracts.

 

[Kamiccolo]

If I'm such a Dubas fanboy as you're trying to claim, why am I criticizing the Tavares deal? Paying him 11 million when he's 32-34 is a bad thing, and I don't like it. That still doesn't address my question as to why those years for Tavares are more valuable than Matthews' prime years. RFA vs UFA contracts is an aspect in negotiations, but it's not everything. It's getting less and less important, even around the league. Everyone can see that RFAs are historically underpaid and UFAs are generally overpaid, so some correction is due anyway

All good.

Just want to take this oppertunity to wish all you guys the best. I am going to be deleting my account later on today, but we've had many years of frustrating times and good times.

Even if we don't agree, many good posters on here. I just can't handle HFboards anymore. It has gotten so toxic that it is negatively impacting my life. I don't feel relaxed anymore when I come here, I get worked up and then get in shit with the mods over questionable shit that goes in a big ol circle.

One thing I will miss is the GDT's. Nothing else like it online. Who knows maybe some day I will come back but we will see.

It's been a slice guys! Love you all and go Leafs!

 

[diceman934]

You do know Dubas already stated you pay premiums for big centers and you pay premiums for goal scoring with the Matthews signing.

He already has drawn his line in the sand.

Yes like I can and I will, or I will not set the market. His line in the sand is invisible.

 

[Legion34]

Other than the apple deal with AM I’ve seen or heard one of his ads.

Really? Marner is on about 12 ads.... His mom is on one.... The dad is on the radio whenever anyone will listen.... They are clearly involved and want to be a part of all of it too much.... The dad goes on radio saying mitch should be captain. The agent rips matthews deal the second its signed.

They are a nightmare. Hes an amazing hockey player who is not as good or valuable as matthews. We have 2 top C who are top 3 in the league with crosby in getting the most out of nothing linemates.

If mitch has to go... So be it....

 

[diceman934]

All good.

Just want to take this oppertunity to wish all you guys the best. I am going to be deleting my account later on today, but we've had many years of frustrating times and good times.

Even if we don't agree, many good posters on here. I just can't handle HFboards anymore. It has gotten so toxic that it is negatively impacting my life. I don't feel relaxed anymore when I come here, I get worked up and then get in **** with the mods over questionable **** that goes in a big ol circle.

One thing I will miss is the GDT's. Nothing else like it online. Who knows maybe some day I will come back but we will see.

It's been a slice guys! Love you all and go Leafs!

I am a true blue leaf fan have been since 1965. I do not take this place seriously. Take a break over the summer and come back.

 

[6ix]

What I meant by that post was that Tavares was not the problem of why the Leafs lost in the first round.

It was multiple things, including bad PP (Team) and bad PK (Team).

I read my original post and I didn't explain that properly.

I’m not saying Tavares is the sole reason we lost round 1. I view it more as he was supposed to be the cherry on top and push us to round 2, as we had already lost in game 7 to Boston last year. Why else would we give him that deal.

It’s not like he had 5 goals and was a beast and we still lost. He had 1 non empty net goal in a 7 game series. It wasn’t good enough.