Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion XX - The Dog Days of August V3

[ACC1224]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that our division rival and team we have to play in the playoffs every year (Boston) get their stars Marchand, Pastrnak and Bergeron signed to around 6.5 while we have to sign our three stars who are on a similar level to around 11 million.

I’d be fine with paying Marner 11 if our competitors were also paying that much.

Times change.
How do you think the Boston players feel?

 

[Byron Bitz]

Times change.
How do you think the Boston players feel?

Pasta and Nylander are the same age, times changing isn’t the reason Pasta signed for less, it’s because Dubas failed the negotiations.

 

[ACC1224]

Pasta and Nylander are the same age, times changing isn’t the reason Pasta signed for less, it’s because Dubas failed the negotiations.

I thought he had signed at least a year earlier and broke out after he signed?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that our division rival and team we have to play in the playoffs every year (Boston) get their stars Marchand, Pastrnak and Bergeron signed to around 6.5 while we have to sign our three stars who are on a similar level to around 11 million.

I’d be fine with paying Marner 11 if our competitors were also paying that much.

It's difficult to compare.

Marchand signed his extension as a 28-year-old coming off a 61 pt season. It obviously looks great after he put up 85, 85, and 100 pt seasons.

The Leafs players are putting up huge seasons as incredibly young players.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I'm all for the free market. Get what you can man. Greed is good. All that sort of mushy, glorious stuff. So Marner trying to bend the Leafs over a barrel is what it is. There is a risk though, that might not have been the same for others.

As a playmaker, you rely on the sniper. A sniper will score, no matter who he plays with. Set up men aren't viewed the same, especially wingers. Snipers will always get paid, set up men don't always if they can't find the goal scorer to play with.

So, if and when Marner sits out this year, and Tavares continues to score as he did last, year, or even drops to a 30 goal scorer, which is where most though he would be, Marner most likely gets traded and takes a major drop in salary that he could receive now.

Worse. If Leafs also start hot and roll along without him. It's one of the big reasons I never understood why Nylander was signed when the team was doing so well without him. I don't think Dubas will make the same mistake again.

So, in the end, if it's a either/or scenario, Marner is at the mercy of how the team and his linemates perform without him. If they perform as they can, I'm sending Marner packing and passing the headache to someone else.

Yes, it's a business. He should make what the market will bear, not a penny more. I would love to see an overpriced offer sheet and flip those picks for a couple of very good 4-6M players to plug any holes. The Leafs are building this team like an NBA team, but, the All Star players aren't playing the same minutes or have that much of an impact. You need depth and balance.

 

[MyBudJT]

It's difficult to compare.

Marchand signed his extension as a 28-year-old coming off a 61 pt season. It obviously looks great after he put up 85, 85, and 100 pt seasons.

The Leafs players are putting up huge seasons as incredibly young players.

This.

Also, people act like Marner has peaked in his U22 season.

Just imagine what Marner will have accomplished hockey wise, when he's 28 years old. (Barring no injury!)

 

[nuck]

Dont see it as a big gamble. He will hold out as long as he wants to and still get paid at minimum the Leafs best offer plus will get paid for time missed. Few clubs could entertain his salary aspirations and still offer a solid return so I dont see anything happening tradewise until the summer and as with Nylander KD wont risk a lost season by sitting him.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner will get signed before the season starts. That being said, it would be all kinds of entertainment, to have Bracco and Tavares together, and find chemistry. 10 games in, Bracco is at PPG, mostly assists, and Tavares is doing as well as last year. Dubas picks up the phone, so Ferris, what do you want to do now?

 

[X66]

Pasta and Nylander are the same age, times changing isn’t the reason Pasta signed for less, it’s because Dubas failed the negotiations.

Pastrnak's career point's per game average when he signed his contract was 0.67

Nylander's was 0.72.

 

[X66]

It's difficult to compare.

Marchand signed his extension as a 28-year-old coming off a 61 pt season. It obviously looks great after he put up 85, 85, and 100 pt seasons.

The Leafs players are putting up huge seasons as incredibly young players.

You honestly think people here are smart enough to understand that?

It's actually embarrassing.

 

[ITM]

I'm all for the free market. Get what you can man. Greed is good. All that sort of mushy, glorious stuff. So Marner trying to bend the Leafs over a barrel is what it is. There is a risk though, that might not have been the same for others.

As a playmaker, you rely on the sniper. A sniper will score, no matter who he plays with. Set up men aren't viewed the same, especially wingers. Snipers will always get paid, set up men don't always if they can't find the goal scorer to play with.

So, if and when Marner sits out this year, and Tavares continues to score as he did last, year, or even drops to a 30 goal scorer, which is where most though he would be, Marner most likely gets traded and takes a major drop in salary that he could receive now.

Worse. If Leafs also start hot and roll along without him. It's one of the big reasons I never understood why Nylander was signed when the team was doing so well without him. I don't think Dubas will make the same mistake again.

So, in the end, if it's a either/or scenario, Marner is at the mercy of how the team and his linemates perform without him. If they perform as they can, I'm sending Marner packing and passing the headache to someone else.

Yes, it's a business. He should make what the market will bear, not a penny more. I would love to see an overpriced offer sheet and flip those picks for a couple of very good 4-6M players to plug any holes. The Leafs are building this team like an NBA team, but, the All Star players aren't playing the same minutes or have that much of an impact. You need depth and balance.

Greed isn't good. Can't be. Never was. Never will be. Not if you deep dive into what it entails and value truth.

What some mean to say - who are mindful of life's realities that don't find moral direction from definitively amoral fictional characters - is industry is good in a free market where services and production yield appropriate reward.

I'd like to believe that that's what's going on, because the Bay Street Leafs version of Gekko's Wall Street would be enough to send me and my support for/to Detroit for good.

For the love of Johnny Bower...Need some damn decency celebrated around here once and a while.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Pasta and Nylander are the same age, times changing isn’t the reason Pasta signed for less, it’s because Dubas failed the negotiations.

Pasternak is a 35g/80pt player making 6.5 million. He's the one who failed his negotiations.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Greed isn't good. Can't be. Never was. Never will be. Not if you deep dive into what it entails and value truth.

What some mean to say - who are mindful of life's realities that don't find moral direction from definitively amoral fictional characters - is industry is good in a free market where services and production yield appropriate reward.

I'd like to believe that that's what's going on, because the Bay Street Leafs version of Gekko's Wall Street would be enough to send me and my support for/to Detroit for good.

For the love of Johnny Bower...Need some damn decency celebrated around here once and a while.

Woah now, no need to get so deep and philosophical. Of course, if he would sign for $6M a year I'd respect him even more, a "team player", "one of the good guys who loves his team and the game" etc. Ultimately, it is greed that drives talent.

Yeah, love of the sport is one thing, but those early workouts and drive to win are at least in part (a big part I presume) of players wanting to be better. The same money he wants, others coming in the system desire to. Him not playing gives opportunities to others, opens up a job for a guy who will make $400k, but WANTS to make the big bucks.

Which new linemate of Tavares wouldn't be motivated by playing with him? Money talks. Always will. You can make a great amount of it and still be a good human being.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

 

[Heisen]

Sign him to a 1 year, instruct Babcock to not play him, tank his value, ruin his career. More fun option to me. Done with this punk.

 

[saffronleaf]

Dubois should refuse to negotiate until Money Mitch fires Paul and Ferris.

 

[Kiwi]

Dubois should refuse to negotiate until Money Mitch fires Paul and Ferris.

Yeah, let's not do that

At the end of the day Marner is Ferris's boss, if he's not keeping abreast of what's happening and there negotiating tactics he's a complete moron so I'm not going to blame Marner's agent or old man for how contentious negotiations may have become

The team and Marner himself need to shoulder some of the blame for this impasse, if it even is an impasse, demanding guys get fired or the player distance himself from his father is a great way to get people to really hate each other

 

[Fogelhund]

Pasta and Nylander are the same age, times changing isn’t the reason Pasta signed for less, it’s because Dubas failed the negotiations.

Pasta signed for 8.89% of cap.
Nylander's $6.692 is 8.7% of Cap...

Pasta had 123 NHL points over 172 games. (regular season) .71PPG
Nylander had 135 points over 185 games (regular season) .72 PPG

and Dubas failed?????

 

[saffronleaf]

Yeah, let's not do that

At the end of the day Marner is Ferris's boss, if he's not keeping abreast of what's happening and there negotiating tactics he's a complete moron so I'm not going to blame Marner's agent or old man for how contentious negotiations may have become

The team and Marner himself need to shoulder some of the blame for this impasse, if it even is an impasse, demanding guys get fired or the player distance himself from his father is a great way to get people to really hate each other

Why you gotta bring reason and sanity into this. Just tryna vent on the Marner camp. It's cathartic.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Greg Wyshysnki joined Sportsnet Today to talk about Mitch Marner’s contract talks with the Toronto Maple Leafs and the latest development regarding the Zurich Lions.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

i think you have to believe a long term contract might be off the table at this point . a 2 or 3 year deal at a respectable clip. with reports say boeser is looking for 4x7.5 or something along those lines I think our hopes of a low aav for a bridge has gone out the window. at this point I think we might be lucky to get him locked up at 2x7 . the process is officially broken.

Wonder what kind of add we might be able to convince Arizona to give us

mitch for keller+ get one of Mathews best buddies in the fold

 

[ItsFineImFine]

It's not a free market, he's an RFA. He only has one team he can negotiate with, if the team doesn't either win the negotiation or get a very team-friendly deal, then the team did a pretty bad job at negotiating.

 

[Fogelhund]

i think you have to believe a long term contract might be off the table at this point . a 2 or 3 year deal at a respectable clip. with reports say boeser is looking for 4x7.5 or something along those lines I think our hopes of a low aav for a bridge has gone out the window. at this point I think we might be lucky to get him locked up at 2x7 . the process is officially broken.

Wonder what kind of add we might be able to convince Arizona to give us

mitch for keller+ get one of Mathews best buddies in the fold

Arizona has no cap space. I don't think they make for a very good trading partner. We'd have to take back two contracts, just to get even on Cap, before we even start to talk about receiving long-term value. We don't have the contract spaces left to do such a deal... of course, multiple deals could be done, to arrange it... but then, it isn't a clean deal at all. I mean... Soderberg, Hjalmarson, Keller is the basic return. It's quite a bit of value from the Arizona lineup perspective, but hardly what we'd want long-term in return.

 

[Advanced stats]

-A lot of snipers also rely on their setup man. Neither role is typically paid more than the other.
-marner won't sit out for the whole year.
- marner won't be traded.
- very good chance the leafs don't start the year very well imo....which puts the bargaining power moreso in Marner's hand.

Basically, I disagree with most of the OP.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It's not a free market, he's an RFA. He only has one team he can negotiate with, if the team doesn't either win the negotiation or get a very team-friendly deal, then the team did a pretty bad job at negotiating.

RFA..... he's available to talk to any team in the league