Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Menzinger]

It's interesting to hear Shannys name keep popping up in the media from here amd there. Like signaling the front office is a unified group and wont be pushed around by demands

 

[zeke]

I've literally never heard this before...27 is when they begin to decline. You're paying for his all his prime years in this contract.

This article by CBC states they peak at 28 then begin their decline while this one by TSN says they peak at 25 and their prime years are in their mid 20s

technically, peak for nhl forwards is actually usually around 23-24.

but steep decline doesn't really happen until the mid-30s.

most current aging curves look kinda like this:

 

[ottawa]

technically, peak for nhl forwards is actually usually around 23-24.

but steep decline doesn't really happen until the mid-30s.

most current aging curves look kinda like this:

Yes, I agree with you. Like the articles said, the decline starts around age 26-27.

 

[Marshy]

Ya every so often I just go on hockeydb and lookup 15 or 20 random superstars from years gone by - focusing on their age 22/23 seasons.

Then I think about the big 3 and I get giddy.

 

[zeke]

Yes, I agree. Like I said, the decline starts around age 26-27

point being is that we don't want to lose matthews, even on a big contract during the majority of those "decline years".

it's only when that player reaches his early 30s that you start to really worry.

 

[ottawa]

point being is that we don't want to lose matthews, even on a big contract during the majority of those "decline years".

it's only when that player reaches his early 30s that you start to really worry.

I agree with you again. You guys got Matthews during his best years, he'll be on the (slow) decline when his contract expires at 26 and imo should either cost the same or get a tiny pay bump at best.

Also, what does the Y axis represent?

 

[Menzinger]

Neither side has negotiated publicly.

This is pretty naive: without getting into what Dreger has obviously been doing (and directly called out in turn by his peers in the media) - Ferris has publicly trashed the Matthew's contract on sports radio. If that's not public negotiation, I dont know what is

 

[Notsince67]

yeah I think you're forgetting we added John Tavares last year. And have upgraded our #2-#3 dmen from Gardiner-Hainsey to Muzzin-Barrie.

Patrick Marleau	$6,250,000	Old
Tomas Plekanec	$6,000,000	Rental
Nazem Kadri	$4,500,000	#2 Center on a bargain contract
Nikita Zaitsev	$4,500,000	Plug
James Van Riemsdyk	$4,250,000	We aint paying more for that
Tyler Bozak	$4,200,000	We aint paying more for that
Jake Gardiner	$4,050,000	Top 4 Dman we don’t value for more
Ron Hainsey	$3,000,000	Old
Leo Komarov	$2,950,000	Replacement Level
Matt Martin	$2,500,000	Replacement Level
Connor Brown	$2,100,000	Replacement Level
Joffrey Lupul	$5,250,000	LTIR
	$49,550,000
Tavares	$11,000,000
Subtotal	$38,550,000
Cap increase	$2,000,000
Available space	$40,550,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ACC1224]

This is pretty naive: without getting into what Dreger has obviously been doing (and directly called out in turn by his peers in the media) - Ferris has publicly trashed the Matthew's contract on sports radio. If that's not public negotiation, I dont know what is

They weren't negotiating at the time.
I know I've seen quotes from Dubas and Shanahan, was it 6 months ago that Ferris was last quoted?

 

[Notsince67]

I'm sofa king pumped we signed Tavares to allow us to trade our surplus (worse) # 2 centre to shore up an area of extreme need. That cap space asset will sure come in handy too in the event we can't sign Muzzin or Barrie. Not to mention undrafted FA in Europe or someone like Ceci surprising and exceeding expectations.

I can counter every doomdsay scenario you can throw at me with a half full glass of optimism.

I'm not sad we signed Tavares. I'm sad he is the only player signed after 5 years

 

[Marshy]

I'm not sad we signed Tavares. I'm sad he is the only player signed after 5 years

I hope we win the Cup in the next few years for your sake I hate to see such a sad Leafs fan.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They weren't negotiating at the time.

Just because somebody isn't actively at a table going over numbers doesn't mean that comments made by that person relevant to negotiations aren't part of negotiations.

 

[zeke]

I agree with you again. You guys got Matthews during his best years, he'll be on the (slow) decline when his contract expires at 26 and imo should either cost the same or get a tiny pay bump at best.

Also, what does the Y axis represent?

goals above replacement.

 

[Randy Randerson]

technically, peak for nhl forwards is actually usually around 23-24.

but steep decline doesn't really happen until the mid-30s.

most current aging curves look kinda like this:

from everything that I've seen, elite players also tend to age more gracefully than the average as well

 

[zeke]

Patrick Marleau	$6,250,000	Old
Tomas Plekanec	$6,000,000	Rental
Nazem Kadri	$4,500,000	#2 Center on a bargain contract
Nikita Zaitsev	$4,500,000	Plug
James Van Riemsdyk	$4,250,000	We aint paying more for that
Tyler Bozak	$4,200,000	We aint paying more for that
Jake Gardiner	$4,050,000	Top 4 Dman we don’t value for more
Ron Hainsey	$3,000,000	Old
Leo Komarov	$2,950,000	Replacement Level
Matt Martin	$2,500,000	Replacement Level
Connor Brown	$2,100,000	Replacement Level
Joffrey Lupul	$5,250,000	LTIR
	$49,550,000
Tavares	$11,000,000
Subtotal	$38,550,000
Cap increase	$2,000,000
Available space	$40,550,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

ah c'mon now, why are you counting $6m for Pleks and $5.3 for lupul when almost none of that counted against the cap?

we got rid of all of that junk (kadri excepted), and added Tavares, Muzzin, Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci, and signed all of our ELC talent. it's pretty amazing.

 

[hector morrison]

I'm sofa king pumped we signed Tavares to allow us to trade our surplus (worse) # 2 centre to shore up an area of extreme need. That cap space asset will sure come in handy too in the event we can't sign Muzzin or Barrie. Not to mention undrafted FA in Europe or someone like Ceci surprising and exceeding expectations.

I can counter every doomdsay scenario you can throw at me with a half full glass of optimism.

I can respect someone pointing out potential pitfalls,but as witnessed this season (and off season) things can change quickly! Dubas has shown that he is willing to be proactive...How can you not like that?

I too have the glass half full perspective. There will always be questions that require a wait and see response.

 

[Menzinger]

They weren't negotiating at the time.
I know I've seen quotes from Dubas and Shanahan, was it 6 months ago that Ferris was last quoted?

Negation happens beyond face to face meetings. Ferris was very publicly setting the tone for what was to come. Hes a professional agent, some some amateur.

 

[ACC1224]

Just because somebody isn't actively at a table going over numbers doesn't mean that comments made by that person relevant to negotiations aren't part of negotiations.

Agreed, like when Shanahan said they should all take discounts.

 

[Notsince67]

ah c'mon now, why are you counting $6m for Pleks and $5.3 for lupul when almost none of that counted against the cap?

we got rid of all of that junk (kadri excepted), and added Tavares, Muzzin, Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci, and signed all of our ELC talent. it's pretty amazing.

Right. Plec was 3MM retained.
As for Lupul, there was an equivalent space left over in the cap. You cant have it both ways

Patrick Marleau	$6,250,000	Old
Tomas Plekanec	$3,000,000	Rental
Nazem Kadri	$4,500,000	#2 Center on a bargain contract
Nikita Zaitsev	$4,500,000	Plug
James Van Riemsdyk	$4,250,000	We aint paying more for that
Tyler Bozak	$4,200,000	We aint paying more for that
Jake Gardiner	$4,050,000	Top 4 Dman we don’t value for more
Ron Hainsey	$3,000,000	Old
Leo Komarov	$2,950,000	Replacement Level
Matt Martin	$2,500,000	Replacement Level
Connor Brown	$2,100,000	Replacement Level
Joffrey Lupul	$5,250,000	LTIR
	$46,550,000
Tavares	$11,000,000
Subtotal	$35,550,000
Cap increase	$2,000,000
Available space	$37,550,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Marshy]

Agreed, like when Shanahan said they should all take discounts.

‘This may not be for everyone’: Shanahan talks Maple Leafs and hometown discounts - TheHockeyNews


“I think what I’m saying is that on any team, especially with the challenges we face today, you have to figure out what’s most important to you,” Shanahan said. “And at the end of the day, we see a great example with a John Tavares. We were able to attract a player like that who could have made more money elsewhere, who is still doing very, very well financially. But it wasn’t his responsibility to set a new bar or please other people with other interests. He’s a hockey player. He wanted to come here and win hockey games. He wanted to be treated fairly and, yes, that is what we hope for and expect from our players moving forward. It’s not for everyone, but the ones who will play here, that is what we want from them and I think that’s what we want from each other.”

 

[Notsince67]

Agreed, like when Shanahan said they should all take discounts.

Dubas said centers get paid more than wingers...except when the wingers are like Ovi ,Jagr, Kane and Kucherov. He should have had the stones to say this center gets paid more than this winger or just shut up.

 

[ACC1224]

If we didn't know better it seems the Leaf management is doing more of the public negotiating than those despicable agents....crazy.

 

[Cor]

If we didn't know better it seems the Leaf management is doing more of the public negotiating than those despicable agents....crazy.

Based on what

 

[justafan22]

Based on what

Nothing.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Based on what

Liking Marner more than our management group I suppose