Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Heisen]

You'd want to get 100% full value for AM, and trading him even the year before his last, the other team feels "well, he's UFA soon and it's not worth it". Essentially we have Auston for the next 3 years, and have to trade him at the 2022 draft, especially considering that's the summer Morgan Rielly is a UFA and will be going to 11M+

 

[Notsince67]

Re-signing Barrie is immaterial to the trade, if we get it done it's a bonus


A year of Barrie is worth more than a year of Kadri, and that's before factoring in the 1.75 million cap savings.
A year of Kadri is better than a year of Kerfoot, but with Kerfoot we save a million dollars and gain an extra year at 3C.

It's a fine hockey trade.

Especially if you look at opportunity cost. Barrie at 2.75 was a hugely valuable acquisition. In terms of futures it would easily be in the Muzzin range.

I dont mind Barrie but he is not the Dman people think he is. The main benefit of this trade is to temporarily shore up the D unit and temporarily hold the cap but his style and inopportune bone headedness will guarantee a similar treatment that Gardiner receives from the crowds here. If the team flounders, he will want to leave because IMO he will receive a crowd backlash. I hope im wrong but i dont think so. In any case, I think that without the retention, this deal would not have been done.
Edit ...and i mean moving kadri for this package...not getting Barrie

 

[zeke]

You forgot jvr

and tavares.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Essentially we have Auston for the next 3 years, and have to trade him at the 2022 draft, especially considering that's the summer Morgan Rielly is a UFA and will be going to 11M+

Trading the team's best player and franchise #1 center and probable captain in the middle of their contention window before they even have a chance to negotiate an extension is beyond ridiculous and unrealistic.

If you need cap space, you trade somebody else.

By your logic, shouldn't we be trading Rielly next year (2 years before UFA)? Why are you clearing space for him?

 

[zeke]

It is yet to be seen what it leaves us with. So far I expected a bit more than a 1 year rental Defensive core and 1 major player unsigned.
BTW...I forgot Lupil LTIR and Plecanec. That's another 11.25MM

2016-17 ------ 2019-20

Matthews ---- Matthews
Marner ------- Marner
Nylander ----- Nylander

Kadri --------- Tavares
JVR ----------- Kapanen
Bozak --------- Kerfoot

Hyman -------- Hyman
Komarov ----- Johnsson
Brown --------- Moore

Smith/Boyle -- Shore/Spezza
Martin --------- Agostino
Soshnikov ----- Aberg


Rielly ---------- Rielly
Gardiner ------ Muzzin
Zaitsev -------- Barrie

Hunwick ------ Dermott
Polak ---------- Ceci
Carrick -------- Liljegren


Andersen ----- Andersen

 

[Dekes For Days]

I dont mind Barrie but he is not the Dman people think he is.

...what do you think he is?

Because what he is is an incredibly skilled top-pairing RH defenseman that played 5 minutes more per game than any other D in Colorado's playoff run last year.

his style and inopportune bone headedness will guarantee a similar treatment that Gardiner receives from the crowds here.

Barrie is a much better defenseman than Gardiner, and it's not even close compared to the broken down mess that Gardiner was last year.

In any case, I think that without the retention, this deal would not have been done.

Of course, because we couldn't have afforded Barrie then. That doesn't make his retention not valuable.

 

[Joey Hoser]

main benefit of this trade is to temporarily shore up the D unit and temporarily hold the cap

What's all this business about "temporary"? We're in a contention window and need good players to fill our holes. Would you prefer a worse player on a long term deal? Coulda kept Zaitsev instead?

 

[MattySnipes]

Essentially we have Auston for the next 3 years, and have to trade him at the 2022 draft, especially considering that's the summer Morgan Rielly is a UFA and will be going to 11M+

Kid hasn't played a single game outfitted in his new contract but somehow his 5-year contract essentially went down 2 years, because you and many others feel he is gone.

How does a 5 year commitment equal to him "leaving the first chance he gets"? Is it because it's not max term like other players? He has said "I'm not going anywhere, I love it in Toronto, I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else!" but posters will spin it and say "he has to say that"

Morgan Rielly as an $11M+ defensemen, not even going to get into that.

Instead of worrying what's going to happen in 2-5 years why not just enjoy the moment and cheer on the 19-20 Leafs and see where it takes you.

People in the business don't even know how much the cap is increasing or decreasing year to year. Why worry about what you can't control as well as whether players stay or not? Be a fan of the team. The new generation of players are not loyal. Whether they are Canadian or American. Nationality doesn't matter anymore. They know how good they are, they want their money or place on a contending team.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas is not negotiating publicly, like Marner's stupid agent. He is negotiating privately, because that is what professional people do.

Dubas not talking or responding to nonsense in the media is not evidence of anything.

Neither side has negotiated publicly.

 

[Havoc]

No, we gave him a 5 year guaranteed contract. He is signed for 5 years.


There are possibilities of what could happen in the 5th year, but there are only possibilities because, again, he is signed for 5 years. He either plays with us in year 5, or is traded for assets before year 5. If he was signed for 4, after 4 years there would be no assets and he would be a UFA.

You two seem to just be having communication issues. He didn't seem to understand you literally meant "straight to UFA".

In his defence as well he literally means 4 guaranteed years "with us" since year 5 has the potential for drama. Hence his 4 year drama free time line of guaranteed Matthews as a Leaf.

 

[hockeywiz542]

What Andrei Vasilevskiy's contract means for the Lightning...

It appears there’s a waiting game among high-profile RFAs with no one wanting to go first, with a source saying agents are waiting for Toronto’s Mitch Marner to get his deal done and set the market.

 

[Notsince67]

2016-17 ------ 2019-20

Matthews ---- Matthews
Marner ------- Marner
Nylander ----- Nylander

Kadri --------- Tavares
JVR ----------- Kapanen
Bozak --------- Kerfoot

Hyman -------- Hyman
Komarov ----- Johnsson
Brown --------- Moore

Smith/Boyle -- Shore/Spezza
Martin --------- Agostino
Soshnikov ----- Aberg


Rielly ---------- Rielly
Gardiner ------ Muzzin
Zaitsev -------- Barrie

Hunwick ------ Dermott
Polak ---------- Ceci
Carrick -------- Liljegren


Andersen ----- Andersen

You miss the point completely. A lot of those players were leafs assets last summer. We had a lot of cap space and yet we have one dman currently on the roster who is signed for next year. After 4 years, we have 3 players in total who are signed. After 6 years, we have 1 signed who is 34 years old.

 

[Marshy]

You miss the point completely. A lot of those players were leafs assets last summer. We had a lot of cap space and yet we have one dman currently on the roster who is signed for next year.in 4 years, we have 3 players in total who are signed.

We have some young D ready to make the jump in 2021 and either we sign Barrie and/or Muzzin or we have cap space to sign UFA in 2020/21 or make a trade for one. So much can happen it's hardly worth worrying about right now.

 

[zeke]

You miss the point completely. A lot of those players were leafs assets last summer. We had a lot of cap space and yet we have one dman currently on the roster who is signed for next year. After 4 years, we have 3 players in total who are signed. After 6 years, we have 1 signed who is 34 years old.

yeah I think you're forgetting we added John Tavares last year. And have upgraded our #2-#3 dmen from Gardiner-Hainsey to Muzzin-Barrie.

 

[zeke]

Matthews signing for 5yrs instead of 8yrs is actually better for us in the longrun.

It means his next contract we'll be paying for all prime years even on an 8yr term (27-34) instead of having to lock him up well into his decline years.

 

[Notsince67]

We have some young D ready to make the jump in 2021 and either we sign Barrie and/or Muzzin or we have cap space to sign UFA in 2020/21 or make a trade for one. So much can happen it's hardly worth worrying about right now.

We just traded a #2 center and we still dont have a #1 pick for next year. You run through 3 prospects in the Marlies and we are pretty dry there too.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You two seem to just be having communication issues. He didn't seem to understand you literally meant "straight to UFA".

In his defence as well he literally means 4 guaranteed years "with us" since year 5 has the potential for drama. Hence his 4 year drama free time line of guaranteed Matthews as a Leaf.

I explained that there were only 4 RFA years, not 5, and thus that meant he wasn't going straight to UFA. I don't know how he wouldn't understand what I meant.

He just seems to believe that having to make decisions on players means the exact same thing as them not being signed, which is an extremely odd stance to take.

 

[Marshy]

Matthews signing for 5yrs instead of 8yrs is actually better for us in the longrun.

It means his next contract we'll be paying for all prime years even on an 8yr term (27-34) instead of having to lock him up well into his decline years.

His ultra-prime years he's going to be playing for a long term deal - the richest deal he'll ever sign. A motivated superstar playing at the highest level of his career for a contract like the one he'll want to sign. Oh baby....

 

[ShaneFalco]

He looks like he's close to signing

 

[Dekes For Days]

Neither side has negotiated publicly.

Highly debatable.

Point remains that Dubas has no obligation to respond to things publicly, and his lack of response to a rumour doesn't make it true.

 

[ottawa]

Matthews signing for 5yrs instead of 8yrs is actually better for us in the longrun.

It means his next contract we'll be paying for all prime years even on an 8yr term (27-34) instead of having to lock him up well into his decline years.

I've literally never heard this before...27 is when they begin to decline. You're paying for his all his prime years in this contract.

This article by CBC states they peak at 28 then begin their decline while this one by TSN says they peak at 25 and their prime years are in their mid 20s

 

[Marshy]

We just traded a #2 center and we still dont have a #1 pick for next year. You run through 3 prospects in the Marlies and we are pretty dry there too.

[MOD]
I'm pumped we signed Tavares to allow us to trade our surplus (worse) # 2 centre to shore up an area of extreme need. That cap space asset will sure come in handy too in the event we can't sign Muzzin or Barrie. Not to mention undrafted FA in Europe or someone like Ceci surprising and exceeding expectations.

I can counter every doomdsay scenario you can throw at me with a half full glass of optimism.

 

[FMichael]

He looks like he's close to signing

Seems like Mitch has a better relationship with his 'surrogate' father than his biological father.

 

[ACC1224]

Highly debatable.

Point remains that Dubas has no obligation to respond to things publicly, and his lack of response to a rumour doesn't make it true.

Of course not, they seem to be keeping things professional and speak to each other.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We just traded a #2 center and we still dont have a #1 pick for next year. You run through 3 prospects in the Marlies and we are pretty dry there too.

You put so much emphasis on the (mostly worse) players we lost, while blatantly ignoring the players we brought in.

Leafs have a lot of good prospects beyond the big 3.