Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVIII (continued)

[Confucius]

If he misses training camp I hope he understands he'll be taking less than is being offered now.

 

[Notsince67]

If he misses training camp I hope he understands he'll be taking less than is being offered now.

This doesn't make sense

 

[Throw More Waffles]

This doesn't make sense

Because he'll miss out on the 2 months of pay.

 

[diceman934]

Because he'll miss out on the 2 months of pay.

You do not get paid for training camp.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

If he misses training camp I hope he understands he'll be taking less than is being offered now.

I believe he starts losing money after game #1 in October.

 

[Notsince67]

Because he'll miss out on the 2 months of pay.

The cap is not affected by a training camp holdout

 

[Confucius]

This doesn't make sense

I would certainly hope Dubas has made his best offer. Once the season starts his cap hit for the year can only be higher, therefore he has to be offered less.

 

[Notsince67]

I would certainly hope Dubas has made his best offer. Once the season starts his cap hit for the year can only be higher, therefore he has to be offered less.

I will be very disappointed if they both havent agreed to a bridge as a contingency before it gets to that

 

[Kiwi]

I believe he starts losing money after game #1 in October.

In all likelihood he won't, he's going to get a gigantic bonus the day he signs which means he doesn't loose money if he doesn't start the season, Nylander didn't lose bugger all even though he didn't play for 2 months

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The cap is not affected by a training camp holdout

Yeah, my bad.

I meant if he holds out after camp/preaseason, he's not getting paid.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

In all likelihood he won't, he's going to get a gigantic bonus the day he signs which means he doesn't loose money if he doesn't start the season, Nylander didn't lose bugger all even though he didn't play for 2 months

Yeah, but that was an unacceptable compromise made by a rookie gm that doesn't know what he's doing.

Look how Nylander performed last year. And making him "square" for sitting out two months? It's a joke.

 

[Confucius]

In all likelihood he won't, he's going to get a gigantic bonus the day he signs which means he doesn't loose money if he doesn't start the season, Nylander didn't lose bugger all even though he didn't play for 2 months

The big difference is we cant afford the big cap hit for starting the season late.

 

[DopeyFish]

In all likelihood he won't, he's going to get a gigantic bonus the day he signs which means he doesn't loose money if he doesn't start the season, Nylander didn't lose bugger all even though he didn't play for 2 months

The issue is unlike Nylander, available cap shrinks immediately on the start of the season due to LTIR. With Nylander we had space so it scaled identically with the time he was off. So delaying beyond season start will impact the money available to him.

 

[Kiwi]

Yeah, but that was an unacceptable compromise made by a rookie gm that doesn't know what he's doing.

Look how Nylander performed last year. And making him "square" for sitting out two months? It's a joke.

Jesus, hyperbole much?

He was a young guy learning on the job, it would seem he's learnt some things since the Nylander situation and has had an excellent offseason, he gave Nylander bonuses, the horror

Step back from the ledge

The big difference is we cant afford the big cap hit for starting the season late.

The issue is unlike Nylander, available cap shrinks immediately on the start of the season due to LTIR. With Nylander we had space so it scaled identically with the time he was off. So delaying beyond season start will impact the money available to him.

That wasn't what was asked, it was would Marner lose money if he sits and with bonuses he wouldn't necessarily have to

Us being able to pay him a pro rated salary next season and fit it under the cap is a different issue

If he sits he's either bridged or traded and if he's bridged I would imagine he gets bonuses so won't lose any money, or gets traded or just doesn't play next season

 

[DopeyFish]

Jesus, hyperbole much?

He was a young guy learning on the job, it would seem he's learnt some things since the Nylander situation and has had an excellent offseason, he gave Nylander bonuses, the horror

Step back from the ledge




That wasn't what was asked, it was would Marner lose money if he sits and with bonuses he wouldn't necessarily have to

Us being able to pay him a pro rated salary next season and fit it under the cap is a different issue

If he sits he's either bridged or traded and if he's bridged I would imagine he gets bonuses so won't lose any money, or gets traded or just doesn't play next season

If he signs with the leafs, delaying would only make him lose money. Trading out money wouldn't make him earn any more. To help you understand... It's $10.5 million of LTIR but because contracts signed into the season are prorated, that $10.5 million gets smaller by each passing day because unlike cap space, it doesn't scale over time. So if he signed at the same time Nylander did, Leafs could only afford around $7 million AAV. In order to make space for anything more, they'd have to trade $20+ million of cap. That's why he cannot wait any longer than the start of the season or else he's looking for an offer sheet. That basically narrows it down to... Ottawa and New Jersey.

 

[Kiwi]

If he signs with the leafs, delaying would only make him lose money. Trading out money wouldn't make him earn any more. To help you understand... It's $10.5 million of LTIR but because contracts signed into the season are prorated, that $10.5 million gets smaller by each passing day because unlike cap space, it doesn't scale over time. So if he signed at the same time Nylander did, Leafs could only afford around $7 million AAV. In order to make space for anything more, they'd have to trade $20+ million of cap. That's why he cannot wait any longer than the start of the season or else he's looking for an offer sheet. That basically narrows it down to... Ottawa and New Jersey.

I understand, I just don't think you guys are actually thinking about this clearly, Marner is going to get his if he sits out the start of the season or not, be it us or somebody else

If anybody thinks he's taking a long term deal with a pro rated AAV that we can fit under the cap after he's sat for any length of time is out of there mind, he's either going to bridge, get traded or not play this season in that situation

Nothing else makes sense for an RFA of his quality

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

It’s urgent for Leafs to get him signed to start the season, just as it is urgent Mitch signs his offersheet (if applicable) to start the season. A hold out wouldn’t have the same time as Nylander did. A team isn’t going to sit there with $11m+ in dead capspace from the start of the season with hopes he signs an offersheet so they can accommodate him.

 

[lovemyleafs]

So Kadri's gone...

Kawhi's gone...

Stro's gone..

Marner's next? ok.

 

[Confucius]

I understand, I just don't think you guys are actually thinking about this clearly, Marner is going to get his if he sits out the start of the season or not, be it us or somebody else

If anybody thinks he's taking a long term deal with a pro rated AAV that we can fit under the cap after he's sat for any length of time is out of there mind, he's either going to bridge, get traded or not play this season in that situation

Nothing else makes sense for an RFA of his quality

Pretty sure he wont be traded, who out there is worth 4 1sts and the 10.5 million cap space that we can use to sign another player or 2. Saying trade him is one thing but we get quite a bit if he accepts an offer sheet.

 

[Kiwi]

Pretty sure he wont be traded, who out there is worth 4 1sts and the 10.5 million cap space that we can use to sign another player or 2. Saying trade him is one thing but we get quite a bit if he accepts an offer sheet.

It's probably in everybody's best interests if the offersheeting team actually makes a trade with us instead

We're in win now mode so something or somethings that help us win now is probably in our best interests and the offersheet team would be better served giving up something less than 4 unprotected 1st round picks

Like Werenski or Werenski + for Marner

I seriously doubt it comes to that however, I still think Marner's going to be a Leaf long term

 

[Duke Silver]

Simmons from the Sun said that the Leafs won't sign Marner until the beginning of the season, meaning he'll miss training camp and the first few games.

Don't pass along his nonsense.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

So Kadri's gone...

Kawhi's gone...

Stro's gone..

Marner's next? ok.

I like your positivity

 

[CDN24]

You cite the stat regularly and then lay out that points tell you less about what is going on not more.

1. I never use expected goals for as an isolated stat, ever.

2. Every comp I have used in this thread has been built on comparing p/60 numbers for offense.

3. Yes, points are less informative than the numbers I have been using.

Check out you answer on post 864 of version XVI of the Marner thread from July 17th. That looks a lot like an expected GF stat. Have you an Dubas moved on from that stat in 2 weeks?

Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

 

[Dayjobdave]

Simmons may be right that the Leafs won’t sign Marner until the end of camp. That’s when they will have the space. They can only go 10% over the cap in summer including the LTIRs, so that’s 89.65 m. On Oct 2 they can put 10.5 or more on LTIR so effectively 92.

If Mitch is getting 10+, it may have to wait until then.

I suspect they have a tentative deal in place.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Simmons may be right that the Leafs won’t sign Marner until the end of camp. That’s when they will have the space. They can only go 10% over the cap in summer including the LTIRs, so that’s 89.65 m. On Oct 2 they can put 10.5 or more on LTIR so effectively 92.

If Mitch is getting 10+, it may have to wait until then.

I suspect they have a tentative deal in place.

No they could use LTIR and have no problem.