Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

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CDN24

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Leafs were better off sitting Willy and not burning a year of his contract for nothing.

No NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats. Historically, sitting out is a stat killer.

....Bure was almost a 10 year veteran when he came back with a couple 60 goal seasons under his belt. Development and goal scoring wise he was light years ahead of Nylander. Bure is one of the most dynamic goal scorers in NHL history. I don't see the relevance in comparing Bure to Nylander regarding a lockout. There is zero insights to gain here. Bure can sit out for 90% of a season and still be better than 90% of the league.

Paul Coffey came back to a team with three 30 goal scorers, one fifty goal scorer and one sixty goal scorer. Just take that in. How hard is it for him to rack up assists passing to these guys? You think Nylander can't go point per game passing to that team? He lead our team in possession numbers. Coffey has zero relevance to Nylander.


Nobody is excusing Nylander. Common sense says if a dude on his ELC who is still developing sits out for 1 /3 of the season, odds are in favor of that player underperforming. Pretty simple concept to understand.

The quote above is the the one I was replying to with Larmer/Coffey/Bure as examples. I was replying to a quote that said " no NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats"

It did not say no player coming of an ELC, it said no player.

Common sense also says if a dude is worth $7M a year he should be able to miss 26 games and not come back looking like a 3rd/4th liner.
 

81Leafs50

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What? I called out your unfounded arbitrary statement and I'm the one lying to myself? Willy had a horrible season but the time off didn't need to cause that. he looked unprepared- thats on him and lost playing with out matthews.

"he looked unprepared" this is not arbitrary?

the team, the GM, and the player have commented on the horrible season. They all pretty much said that it was too much time to miss. Everyone else was completely ramped up and getting ready for playoff drives (Jan 1 - April 6) and he hadnt played competitive hockey in 8 months (May-Dec).

But ya, it was just a simple case of not being prepared. LMAO

some people. honestly. SMH
 

CDN24

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"he looked unprepared" this is not arbitrary?

the team, the GM, and the player have commented on the horrible season. They all pretty much said that it was too much time to miss. Everyone else was completely ramped up and getting ready for playoff drives (Jan 1 - April 6) and he hadnt played competitive hockey in 8 months (May-Dec).

But ya, it was just a simple case of not being prepared. LMAO

some people. honestly. SMH

If you just signed a guy to that contract and you performed like that you would make excuses too. I don't know if my evaluation of how prepared he looked is arbitrary or if its bullshit? its how he looked to me.
Again just admit that you had no clue when you stated that "No NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats. Historically, sitting out is a stat killer".

It has been proven wrong

Leafs better hope it was a case of not being prepared, the alternative "not that good" is worse.
 

Cor

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If it makes a difference, he won't be eligible for arbitration next offseason if he sits out the whole year.

He won't sit out an entire player.


No player or agent will think sitting out an entire season is good, when there is a potential lockout next season. Imagine not playing hockey for two seasons and not getting paid a real salary in the process.

Mitch Marner will be traded if he isn't signed by the end of camp IMO.

Kyle Dubas said he wasn't going to do what he did with Nylander. I believe that, because it wasn't beneficial what-so-ever. Either a deal gets done before the season starts or you can kiss Marner goodbye.
 

Havoc

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The quote above is the the one I was replying to with Larmer/Coffey/Bure as examples. I was replying to a quote that said " no NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats"

It did not say no player coming of an ELC, it said no player.

Common sense also says if a dude is worth $7M a year he should be able to miss 26 games and not come back looking like a 3rd/4th liner.

I mean, those are some serious players you use as examples. Bure and Coffey? These are hall of famers. That poster has a point about outliers. Looking at his comment he used the word "historically" right after. "No one" seems to be hyperbole but I can't speak for him.

I like Nylander but I don't think he's Bure or Coffey good. I don't see the correlation or the point of comparing his lockout to hall of famers that sat out or missed time especially when they were already established superstars. That's really unfair.

This was a 22 year old who is still developing missing 1 /3 of a season.

There is a difference between making excuses versus using the lockout as a factor for allowing him another shot to show his 16 / 17 and 17 / 18 seasons are more reflective of his potential. Nylander got paid because Leafs believe 16 / 17 and 17 / 18 are his true game.

If he fails next season then yes it's time to re-assess.
 
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justafan22

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He won't sit out an entire player.


No player or agent will think sitting out an entire season is good, when there is a potential lockout next season. Imagine not playing hockey for two seasons and not getting paid a real salary in the process.

Mitch Marner will be traded if he isn't signed by the end of camp IMO.

Kyle Dubas said he wasn't going to do what he did with Nylander. I believe that, because it wasn't beneficial what-so-ever. Either a deal gets done before the season starts or you can kiss Marner goodbye.

There's a small chance if he misses a week/2 weeks max maybe he still signs, but anything past October 15th and I'd be stunned.
 

JT AM da real deal

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just to be clear. My original post was "any NHLer who misses more than a month of the season, puts up lower stats". history shows.

So if Marner just misses camp or something like that then its no big deal.
You are looking at 3-4 weeks to get back in game shape and then another 3-4 weeks to get the touch/confidence back. I don't care if its Gretz.
 

hockeywiz542

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Why there's a stalemate with NHL RFA's signing

1:22 | July 18, 2019

Former Vancouver Canucks General Manager Mike Gillis joined Starting Lineup to discuss why there is a stalemate with NHL RFA's signing.

 

Gary Nylund

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If they won the cup, nobody would be saying "Meh, the Gm was just lucky everyone was healthy."

It has to go both ways.

Some gm's are far better than others. That's based on their assessment of situations and the outcomes of the tough decisions they make. You seem to think that every gm is 100% equally good, but some are luckier than others.

:laugh::laugh:

What the hell dude, where are you getting this nonsense from?
 
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MattySnipes

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'Mecca' of Hockey
Just sayin'...

IMG_20190718_164549.png
 

BoredBrandonPridham

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What? I called out your unfounded arbitrary statement and I'm the one lying to myself? Willy had a horrible season but the time off didn't need to cause that. he looked unprepared- thats on him and lost playing with out matthews.

His production rate was the same as his previous high despite having a “horrible season” FYI. He had a slow return (whole team slumped as soon as he joined) but the biggest difference was he got PP2 time because PP1 already settled.
 
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Havoc

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The quote above is the the one I was replying to with Larmer/Coffey/Bure as examples. I was replying to a quote that said " no NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats"

It did not say no player coming of an ELC, it said no player.

Common sense also says if a dude is worth $7M a year he should be able to miss 26 games and not come back looking like a 3rd/4th liner.

Forgot to point out my issue isn't with the "no one" stuff. Those were some cool stats to read.

I don't understand how you expanded on that and applied it to Nylander. Coffey had a Norris trophy before he held out lol.

Then you use a biased opinion to easily bet that Marner will see no drop in production if he went through the same process as Nylander.

If we're going to use your outliers, then Marner isn't even close himself to being Bure or Coffey yet. He's still developing too. If he was ready for that status he wouldn't have disappeared against Bergeron and Marchand in the playoffs. So I'm not sure where you get the confidence to make this bet from besides strong bias towards Marner and strong bias against Nylander.

Not only that your bet would have to include Marner playing on the third line for a good portion plus no PP1. You still making that bet?

I have Marner's poster hanging on my wall and I'm still not taking that bet. If he gets to go back with Tavares and is given his PP1 spot back then okay.

However keep in mind that works against downgrading Nylander because all the examples you use, those players went back to full usage with all the best perks such as PP1, linemates etc.


Outliers and bias aren't really the best ingredients to be taken seriously.
 
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81Leafs50

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If you just signed a guy to that contract and you performed like that you would make excuses too. I don't know if my evaluation of how prepared he looked is arbitrary or if its bull****? its how he looked to me.
Again just admit that you had no clue when you stated that "No NHL player has missed more than a month of the season and came back to put up great stats. Historically, sitting out is a stat killer".

It has been proven wrong

Leafs better hope it was a case of not being prepared, the alternative "not that good" is worse.

SO, people are making excuses. A lie you just made up. You are accusing people of lying whom you dont know and have never interacted with. But whatever to make your point right?

I am not speaking from opinion. Nor am I accusing a player or GM of lying or making excuses.

I have looked over the stats and based on what I have found......NO player who sat out more than a month due to contract negotiations has put up good numbers. Now its more than possible i may have missed something and anyone can prove me wrong. Until you they do, the statement stands.
 

ACC1224

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Hopefully someone can translate Marners interview.
 

81Leafs50

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You are looking at 3-4 weeks to get back in game shape and then another 3-4 weeks to get the touch/confidence back. I don't care if its Gretz.

and I agree with that. thats just logic.

Nylander played his first game Dec 6th and everyone said even that was too soon to start playing.

Dec 1st he signed, a month to get you legs back and your wind and that brings you to Jan 1st. Season ends on April 6. What has he supposed to do in 3 months? i'm actually surprised he scored 27pts and was on a 41pt pace for 82 games.
 
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