Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[ShaneFalco]

Live offersheet announcement?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Columbus would also have to pay Marner what he wants.....I'm not sure they would.

They can't they are losing money there. They need to cut back on payroll.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Leaf might have better luck trying Werenski for Marner.

Not what we need. Another offensive dman not required. We need a Jones who can help dominate the puck in our end and retrieve it when it is lost.

 

[Walshy7]

Hear Marner is going to be on Tim and Sid today.
Might be worth a watch

maybe we should play cliché bingo

"constant contact with leafs"
"love being a leaf"
"grew up watching leafs"
"wanna win a championship in Toronto"

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You do realize this exact player was traded for a barely top 20 if that C right?

I do but that was way before he established himself as one of top, if not top, 2 way defense-man in the league. Very very hard to get a defender with size and strength of Jones who can skate both laterally and up/down ice and covers both ends of ice with dominance. You have to be shrewd like Columbus to pickup that type of player before they turn into a beast. But that may be best trade in past 10 years in the NHL.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Live offersheet announcement?

LOL

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hear Marner is going to be on Tim and Sid today.
Might be worth a watch

Mitch is promoting his assist fund at Sports Village tomorrow. He did same with Bobcat last year. He will say the politically correct stuff.

 

[Walshy7]

Live offersheet announcement?

im taking my talents to...….

The New York islanders
The New jersey Devils
The Ottawa senators

only the glitz and glamour for mitch

 

[ACC1224]

Mitch is promoting his assist fund at Sports Village tomorrow. He did same with Bobcat last year. He will say the politically correct stuff.

I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

[IPS]

Not what we need. Another offensive dman not required. We need a Jones who can help dominate the puck in our end and retrieve it when it is lost.

He ain't an offensive dman bro.... his defensive game has come a long way from his rookie year so far in his short career.

 

[Notsince67]

There have been some. In 1993-94 Steve Larmer skipped camp and sat out a bit more than a month demanding a trade from the Hawks. He went on to put up .88 PPg with the rangers and win the cup compared to .83PPG the year before. Had he not sat out he probably would have beaten jarvis' iron man streak that year.

In 1998 Pavel bure sat out most of the year demanding a trade out of Vancouver. Finally in the winter he was traded to the Panthers only playing 13 games that year after sitting out. He scored 16 goals in those 13 games- didn't seem too rusty. Traded in January but limited to 13 games because of an injury I think.

Edit Paul Coffey held out with edm for a trade. Traded at end of November. put up 1.46 PPG with pitt compared to 1.13 PPG year before.

Shea Weber last year after sitting out a year due to injury. Same suspects make stuff up as they go

 

[thewave]

this is exactly the response I got when I said last October that Willy needs to sit out the season. "He will be fine" "this doesnt apply to high skill guys" blah blah blah

and now I get the same response all over again.

lie to yourself all you want. I saw Willy's horrible season coming in October. The player himself even says so but no, keep up the made up BS.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Missing camp and the first couple mths is a sure fire way to have a wasted season.

 

[justafan22]

If it makes a difference, he won't be eligible for arbitration next offseason if he sits out the whole year.

 

[Kiwi]

im taking my talents to...….

The New York islanders
The New jersey Devils
The Ottawa senators

only the glitz and glamour for mitch

You forgot Columbus Walshy

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He ain't an offensive dman bro.... his defensive game has come a long way from his rookie year so far in his short career.

Oh ok I still remember him from Belle Tire days when my kid played against him in Caesrs tournaments. He was a great skater but very very soft in his own end.

 

[thewave]

If it makes a difference, he won't be eligible for arbitration next offseason if he sits out the whole year.

Always worth it to make them sit. They never sit, can't ever make the money back

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nonsense.

Gm’s have to make a lot of difficult decisions, and they are judged/assessed based on the outcomes of those decisions.

It goes both ways. If a gm makes a lot of difficult decisions, and it leads to a cup, those decisions in hindsight would be considered genius.

As it is, Dubas had a difficult decision.

Set a bad precedent by caving in to a rfa’s dramatic overpayment, or lose that player for a season where the leafs were legitimate cup contenders.

Leafs go deep in the playoffs and Nylander was a major contributor? Dubas was a genius.

As it is, the leafs lost in the first round, and the other star rfa’s walked all over him due to the Nylander precedent.

THe problem with this "logic" is that Dubas being a genius or not depends on things like if Gardiner gets injured or not or if Kadri gets suspended or not yadayadayada.

Makes zero sense to me but hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[ITM]

maybe we should play cliché bingo

"constant contact with leafs"
"love being a leaf"
"grew up watching leafs"
"wanna win a championship in Toronto"

Excellent, lol. I'm pinching it.

 

[Notsince67]

haha maybe Mitch can do radio adds for Tony Soprano's insurance companies there.
"eh you buy this insurance or we will make you wish you bought the insurance capiche!"

Capisce is how you spell it

 

[Throw More Waffles]

THe problem with this "logic" is that Dubas being a genius or not depends on things like if Gardiner gets injured or not or if Kadri gets suspended or not yadayadayada.

Makes zero sense to me but hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

If they won the cup, nobody would be saying "Meh, the Gm was just lucky everyone was healthy."

It has to go both ways.

Some gm's are far better than others. That's based on their assessment of situations and the outcomes of the tough decisions they make. You seem to think that every gm is 100% equally good, but some are luckier than others.

 

[CDN24]

this is exactly the response I got when I said last October that Willy needs to sit out the season. "He will be fine" "this doesnt apply to high skill guys" blah blah blah

and now I get the same response all over again.

lie to yourself all you want. I saw Willy's horrible season coming in October. The player himself even says so but no, keep up the made up BS.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

What? I called out your unfounded arbitrary statement and I'm the one lying to myself? Willy had a horrible season but the time off didn't need to cause that. he looked unprepared- thats on him and lost playing with out matthews.

 

[Havoc]

The point is arbitrary statements like its never happened that a player has played well after sitting out are flat out wrong. I was able to provide 3 examples easily by thinking of high profile guys who sat out. I am sure there are more examples. What about injuries? Shea Weber missed pretty much a full calendar year to injury and campe back at the same time as Nylander last year with no production drop off.

Saying no one comes back as good after sitting out for more than a month and missing camp is excusing Nylander for last years disaster of a season. Willie might be the outlier here. Maybe he will be better this year, can't be much work. Thedifference between Coffey/Larmer/ Bure/and weber to Nylander is what? Maybe they were willing to put in the work while sitting out or injured. Seems like Willie coasted or he can't produce at all with out Matthews at centre, neither alternative seems to be worth 6.96AAV.

I hope Marner does not sit out but if he does I'm willing to bet he comes back just as productive as last year.

....Bure was almost a 10 year veteran when he came back with a couple 60 goal seasons under his belt. Development and goal scoring wise he was light years ahead of Nylander. Bure is one of the most dynamic goal scorers in NHL history. I don't see the relevance in comparing Bure to Nylander regarding a lockout. There is zero insights to gain here. Bure can sit out for 90% of a season and still be better than 90% of the league.


edit- messed up Coffey's stats. However keep in Mind Coffey is on PP1 passing to Mario Lemieux. Not on PP2 passing to Marleau.

Nobody is excusing Nylander. Common sense says if a dude on his ELC who is still developing sits out for 1 /3 of the season, odds are in favor of that player underperforming. Pretty simple concept to understand.

 

[Coachcorner]

....Bure was almost a 10 year veteran when he came back with a couple 60 goal seasons under his belt. Development and goal scoring wise he was light years ahead of Nylander. Bure is one of the most dynamic goal scorers in NHL history. I don't see the relevance in comparing Bure to Nylander regarding a lockout. There is zero insights to gain here. Bure can sit out for 90% of a season and still be better than 90% of the league.

Paul Coffey came back to a team with three 30 goal scorers, one fifty goal scorer and one sixty goal scorer. Just take that in. How hard is it for him to rack up assists passing to these guys? You think Nylander can't go point per game passing to that team? He lead our team in possession numbers. Coffey has zero relevance to Nylander.


Nobody is excusing Nylander. Common sense says if a dude on his ELC who is still developing sits out for 1 /3 of the season, odds are in favor of that player underperforming. Pretty simple concept to understand.

Mikheynev has the chance to be 50% of Bure btw. He stealing that thang real hard and driving to the net.... he ain't fast as bure or small like mouse as he was, but mikheynev doin that thang with the bigger rear end. He that notorious like big. Still scoring, what.

 

[IPS]

Oh ok I still remember him from Belle Tire days when my kid played against him in Caesrs tournaments. He was a great skater but very very soft in his own end.

Yeah he's definitely come a long ways since then. He fell in love with his rover role in his draft year and Columbus has kind of taken him out of that mentality and has worked towards developing him more as more of that sought after 200 ft. defensemen.

 

[81Leafs50]

Marner will miss training camp at most imo, the leafs cant wait as long as they did for nylander its not possible im led to believe. And marner is better than nylander so it damn well shouldn't affect him like nylander was affected. WE are talking about a player some want to pay more than freaking auston Matthews after all

just to be clear. My original post was "any NHLer who misses more than a month of the season, puts up lower stats". history shows.

So if Marner just misses camp or something like that then its no big deal.