Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[Peasy]

Its jokes that Dreger has shut the f*** up once RFA's have been able to sign offersheets.

He can't bluff anymore about a team offering him 12m+.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Can't negotiate through the media then be upset when you end up grilled by said media. If Marner's camp hadn't been so leaky along with Marner's dad and agent going on TSN radio to complain I might feel a little bad about Marner being ambushed in that interview. They set the boundaries of how this thing is going to go though.

 

[Macman]

Marner breaks the silence with "I'd prefer to keep the silence"

Which is actually good on him. **** Masters and all the reporters, this event had nothing to do with his contract.

It's not the media's role to promote Marner's event. If he wants any publicity for it, then he's got to answer a few uncomfortable questions. The reality is most athletes wouldn't even do these events if they were operating in a media vacuum. Suck it up and answer honestly instead of lying that you're leaving it all to your agent and aren't following things.

 

[DarkKnight]

. Suck it up and answer honestly instead of lying that you're leaving it all to your agent and aren't following things.

Only a complete idiot answers it any other way. Every player says “I’m letting my agent handle it” to the media, that’s what they’re been told to say and they do it. Now we’re pissing on him for media 101, sheesh.

 

[Macman]

Only a complete idiot answers it any other way. Every player says “I’m letting my agent handle it” to the media, that’s what they’re told to say and they do it. Now we’re pissing on him for media 101, sheesh.

Of course they're told to do it, but it makes them look ridiculous and like they're not in control of their own lives. There's ways to answer honestly without revealing everything. Mitch looked evasive and uncomfortable. Media 101 failed. He should have taken a higher course.

 

[Nineteen67]

There's drawbacks to every situation but a 2 years bridge is a decent option in our current situation



If he bridges he's still an RFA, so Matthews and Nylander would hit UFA before him

Marner's 2 deal would be pretty sizable though



Self reflection is our friend little fella, your not the dude to be throwing around terms like hypocrisy

Throw him a bone and sign him to a 4 yr deal getting him to UFA ahead of the other 2.

 

[Funk21]

If, (and that is a big if because I don't fully believe the story) Shanahan turned down a Marner deal overruling Dubas the only real reason I could see being is nothing to do with cap hit, and more to do contract structure. Say Marner gets a frontloaded deal on 10.5m a year which pays him 14m in signing bonus and salary this year, plus full lockout protection. That would put the Leafs at 107m this year which blows the league out of the water and that's before all the backroom operation. The other is, if its fully lock out protected for 20-21, I can't see them being ecstatic about owing 33.6m on top of potentially 13m to 14m to Marner in salary bonus, so almost 50m, in a year that could potentially be fully locked out. I can't see Dubas being overruled on cap issues. It would have to be a financial matter that Shanahan is hearing about from the board and Frisdahl on. There is no other real reasoning for me to believe Shanahan decided to interfere.

I have to disagree with you here. This is one of the reasons I was so upset with the Matthews deal. I have said this before that no other team has created contracts that pay out the kind of bonus money we are willing to do. Furthermore the structure of the Nylander deal was likely to make the trade value of his contract much more palatable if we have to move on.

Matthew’s deal last year should have been at least 7/8 based on the bonus structure and cap hit. Unfortunately we could not have gone into the offseason with potential OS on both stars.

If the TML are looking at Marner at 10.5 say for 7 who cares if they front load it and it’s 90%+ bonus money. I understand that as a corporation they care if 30+ million will be paid out in salary when there is a lockout but the TML make so much money that is a drop in the buck.

I just hope other players like Tkachuk, Rantanen, Point, Boeser start to sign deals and we see Farris with his tail between his legs and this gets done before training camp.

 

[Marshy]

Nobody should believe the canned player responses to those questions. They are programmed robots. The media has to ask them just in case the player slips up and reveals something but that would be an extreme rarity.

Marner is involved and likely gets weekly updates at a minimum. I am not faulting Marner here but I hope he knows what he is doing as he has a lot to lose and not much more to gain (over what the team is likely already offering).

 

[Stephen]

Did you miss last summer? Of course you did

What was so different about last summer? Marner Camp shut down talks as soon as the season began last year and at that point Nylander hadn't even been resolved yet.

 

[Nineteen67]

He was told if he had questions to ask his agent, the *****ebag chooses to ignore Marners wishes, that's not doing your job, that's called being a *****ebag ... I do acknowledge your opinion and get it

/end

Actually, that would not be doing his job. You can’t let the guy give you a deflective answer and not ask a follow up. As a consumer I certainly want the media member to press with follow up questions in that scenario.
Marner knew he’d be asked questions about this summer’s biggest sport news story and his answers were not very good, tbh.

 

[Stigma]

Is this Marner's brother? Does he play hockey? I want that guy on my team. He looks like he enjoys crushing skulls.

 

[Stephen]

Nobody should believe the canned player responses to those questions. They are programmed robots. The media has to ask them just in case the player slips up and reveals something but that would be an extreme rarity.

Marner is involved and likely gets weekly updates at a minimum. I am not faulting Marner here but I hope he knows what he is doing as he has a lot to lose and not much more to gain (over what the team is likely already offering).

Seems like Marner is over playing his hand at this point.

 

[CDN24]

SO, people are making excuses. A lie you just made up. You are accusing people of lying whom you dont know and have never interacted with. But whatever to make your point right?

I am not speaking from opinion. Nor am I accusing a player or GM of lying or making excuses.

I have looked over the stats and based on what I have found......NO player who sat out more than a month due to contract negotiations has put up good numbers. Now its more than possible i may have missed something and anyone can prove me wrong. Until you they do, the statement stands.[/QUOTE]

Larmer sat out over a month because of a contract dispute, so did Bure, so did Paul Coffey. All three wanted their contracts renegociated which was an option in the 90s. What more do you you want? you've looked over the stats- look over those stats of those 3.

I am not accusing them of lying, I am accusing them of making excuses. There is a difference. He comes back and plays like shit so they blame the layoff. The layoff certainly affected him there is no denying that and I fully expect him to be better this year.

My point is he showed up not ready to play, as evidenced by his results. he should have been ready.

You want another example, Peter Nedved. Held out with Vancouver (there's that team again) after the 1992-93 season, a season where he put up 71 pts in 84 games. Finally on March 4 1994 after missing the entire season he ends up in St Louis (Canucks got Craig janney and a pick as compensation). he comes into St louis for the last 19 games of the season and puts up 20 points. What did Nylander have in his 1st 19 games back, a goal and and 2 assists.

I would submit those 4 prove you wrong and the statement does not stand.

 

[Nineteen67]

Have mirrors been banned in Canada?

 

[Notsince67]

What was so different about last summer? Marner Camp shut down talks as soon as the season began last year and at that point Nylander hadn't even been resolved yet.

Ignoring the fact that the leafs had lowballed an offer to Marner last summer after a fantastic midseason run and playoff performance is so telling about you. You have consistently taken a dishonest approach on this subject. Not only did Dubas miss a big opportunity but he soured negotiations after Marner continues the run.

 

[Macallan18]

About the interview, clearly Marner was nervous and tense.
His reaction was what he was trained to do for this interview, which was to say absolutely nothing but my agent is handling it.
I'm not at all concerned that there were no comments about loving Toronto, that was not part of the script he was provided.
Having said that, I no longer feel any great affection for individual leafs for the most part, like Matthews, Nylander or Marner. I don't think they give a rats a@@ about the team. It does lessen feelings for the Leafs.

Wendel on the other hand...........

 

[horner]

Only a complete idiot answers it any other way. Every player says “I’m letting my agent handle it” to the media, that’s what they’re been told to say and they do it. Now we’re pissing on him for media 101, sheesh.

No matter what Marner says. He will look like an idiot to the people that don't like him.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Of course they're told to do it, but it makes them look ridiculous and like they're not in control of their own lives. There's ways to answer honestly without revealing everything. Mitch looked evasive and uncomfortable. Media 101 failed. He should have taken a higher course.

What's funny is while Mitch himself has been pretty professional about everything and not saying anything he'd regret, his agent has not... And his agent is the one who should be the professional one telling Mitch not to say anything.

I feel like fans would be off his case a lot more if his agent didn't come out with that stupid "lowball" comment and his father would butt out of everything. He can tell his father off, but ultimately Mitch can't do anything about controlling his father besides flat out ignoring him, which I doubt he'd do. He can, however, fire his agent. He probably won't do that right now, but he should seriously consider it if things don't get resolved properly. A player of his caliber can get any agent he wants and clearly Ferris is not of that caliber, and his roster of clients reflects that. Outside of Marner and Taylor Hall, he has nothing more than middling NHLers and semi-high end prospects at best.

 

[Notsince67]

No matter what Marner says. He will look like an idiot to the people that don't like him.

Marner will continue to make his haters look like idiots. 2 more seasons like he just had will begin talks about his inevitable hall of fame induction when he retires.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Marner will continue to make his haters look like idiots. 2 more seasons like he just had will begin talks about his inevitable hall of fame induction when he retires.

Oh the drama!
The Marner "haters" typically don't like the way his camp has negotiated through the media. And don't want to give the guy a blank cheque b/c the team comes first.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Can't negotiate through the media then be upset when you end up grilled by said media. If Marner's camp hadn't been so leaky along with Marner's dad and agent going on TSN radio to complain I might feel a little bad about Marner being ambushed in that interview. They set the boundaries of how this thing is going to go though.

It was Marner's choice to have that media fiasco by not signing with the Leafs earlier. The Leafs (and apparently other teams) have presented him multiple offers that he could have signed to end this earlier and he refused. He knew it would come up at his event, and it's not like he didn't know when it was going to happen.

Little sympathy from me. It sucks that it had to happen at a charity event designed to improve the lives of others, but too bad. At least he handled it decently well.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner breaks the silence with "I'd prefer to keep the silence"

Which is actually good on him. **** Masters and all the reporters, this event had nothing to do with his contract.

The reporters should have asked the questions about the contract and then left. Don’t give free publicity about his event.

 

[Notsince67]

It is really weird listening to the arguments around here pushing for a cheap contract for Marner. The argument seems that he isn't worth a big contract but the leafs cant give him a good bridge because he will take them to the cleaners when he is done.
He doesn't take them to the cleaners if he wasn't worth the good contract in the first place. It is one thing to say he can't perform at a good contract but only a fool thinks that if marner walks to free agency, he wont get massive money doing it. At his trajectory (over a 90 point player for 82 consecutive games since last December), he looks like he will destroy Kane's RFA performance. The leafs have rights up to his UFA years and they can certainly attempt to lowball those years as leverage to get some of those UFA years but they don't have the rights to those years. As a matter of principal Marner doesn't have to sell them to anyone unless he gets the price he wants and the leafs have the right to trade him. How would it look if Marner pragmatically accepted a deal with another team afterwards for 8.5MM x 4 years and then runs up another season of 90+ points while some of the elite teams like Tampa and Boston along with some up and comers continue to eat a bigger share of the leafs lunch? Questions will be asked of why the leafs couldn't afford to pay a superstar this contract.
Yeah...I'm guessing that Marner has plenty of leverage. Hard coercion does not work with a player of this caliber.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

The reporters should have asked the questions about the contract and then left. Don’t give free publicity about his event.

Yeah I don't know about that. It is a charity - and the recipients who benefit deserve support over us fans.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah I don't know about that. It is a charity - and the recipients who benefit deserve support over us fans.

Then quid pro quo, Mitchell.