Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[supsens]

My issue in all this is it seems that among some fans there is a perception that since MM grew up a fan of the team he should take less to "pay" for the priviledge of playing on home town team.

1) teams bends over backwards for AM 34 giving him unprecedented money on 5 yr term because he might sign offer sheet to go home?
2) Team continually treats MM as significantly less important than AM34

The end result may be loss of hometown boy through trade or offersheet and AM34 walks as a UFA in 5 years.

I always felt the team should have focused on making the hometown guy if not the priority at least equal. This team is heading towards a dressing room with two cliques and that never ends good.

Hawks got it right- they 2 stars were always paid the same.

It's not just the Hawks, the sens did it vancouver did it the Stars are doing it. Its fairly standard and normal in the NHL.

 

[Pookie]

A contract signed two years ago compared to a contract signed two weeks ago?

A contract signed for a player with very similar PPG over their entire ELC and a player with similar pedigree

You are right though. Eichel’s deal was 2 years ago.

Marner = Eichel + inflation

 

[Jozay]

Lol these guys are treating this negotiation as a dick measuring contest, no wonder its been a bad one.

I'll be worried when other RFA's start coming off the board and Mitch is one of the few left.

 

[supsens]

Please Dubas, Trade Marner and be done with this crap.
this entire thing is just ridiculous, enough is enough. trade this greedy little weiner.
IMO he's not even worth 10M
couldnt break 70points first two years and first season with Tavares and he hits 90+ points.
he has not proven he can do this on his own. without Tavares I dont think he even breaks 80 points. 9.5M for atleast 6 years or let the kid sit all season like they should have done with Nylander

After one and a half years they upped his ice time and responibility. Since that time he has scored at the same rate. He did it with Kadri and PM there is no reason to downplay his skills.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Maybe. But I like to dream a little

I get it though. Rielly and Jones 1st pair would carry team to the Cup. It would be by far the top pairing in hockey today. But maybe Marner, Dermott and a prospect/Lily could be attractive for them.

 

[Pookie]

My issue in all this is it seems that among some fans there is a perception that since MM grew up a fan of the team he should take less to "pay" for the priviledge of playing on home town team.

1) teams bends over backwards for AM 34 giving him unprecedented money on 5 yr term because he might sign offer sheet to go home?
2) Team continually treats MM as significantly less important than AM34

The end result may be loss of hometown boy through trade or offersheet and AM34 walks as a UFA in 5 years.

I always felt the team should have focused on making the hometown guy if not the priority at least equal. This team is heading towards a dressing room with two cliques and that never ends good.

Hawks got it right- they 2 stars were always paid the same.

Marleau didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Kadri and Rielly didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Shanahan created this narrative and it blew up. Let’s just acknowledge that fair is a range and Marner will sign within it.

Just like Nylander did

 

[Arthur Morgan]

After one and a half years they upped his ice time and responibility. Since that time he has scored at the same rate. He did it with Kadri and PM there is no reason to downplay his skills.

Tavares>Kadri
he's incredibly skilled yes, but so is Tavares who is wayyy better than Kadri and I mean wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Kadri.
is it possible Marner's point total is higher this year because of......wait for it.....Tavares?
I dont view Kadri scoring what was it? 48?.
Marner is incredible but without Tavares what kinda point total guy is he? 60+ 70+ maybe 80? who knows but his numbers are inflated because of JT.

 

[ORRFForever]

The guys on Overdrive are defending Marner in a BIG way...

Stays healthy.
Leads the team in scoring.
Helps line-mates have career years.
Could make the case that he's as good as Matthews.

Everything we've said here.

 

[leafan11]

The guys on Overdrive are defending Marner in a BIG way.

I heard they said don’t call Marner greedy, except for the fact he’s asking for the highest % of the cap of any winger since the cap era...

 

[Throw More Waffles]

A contract signed for a player with very similar PPG over their entire ELC and a player with similar pedigree

You are right though. Eichel’s deal was 2 years ago.

Marner = Eichel + inflation

Aho’s elc numbers were better than Eichel... and he even played the same position last year.

How come Aho wasn’t “Eichel contract plus inflation”?

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'd like Dubas to set a deadline and actually hold firm to it. You sign by training camp or the only way you get a contract this year is via an offer sheet. Either Marner caves and meets us in the middle, or he calls Dubas bet and Dubas doesn't answer Ferris' phone calls until the league informs us he's signed an offer sheet. I doubt he'd call the bet and let the deadline pass and if he does he'll just sign his best offer sheet when he realizes Dubas wasn't bluffing he won't sit out with the potential lockout year looming next year and miss potentially 2 years of pay in a row if a lockout happens. But I'd bet on him caving at the deadline because he wouldn't get the same signing bonuses in an offer sheet that he'd get from us.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Marleau didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Kadri and Rielly didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Shanahan created this narrative and it blew up. Let’s just acknowledge that fair is a range and Marner will sign within it.

Just like Nylander did

9.5M is fair for Marner. he's the one who IF the rumors are true. wants an unrealistic amount of money on low term.....
okay to be fair 10 - 10.5M MAX for Marner. He's a winger for christ sakes and wingers don't make as much money it's pretty simple really.

how many wingers are making 10+?
okay maybe u can bring up Toews and Kane signing the same contract. but that was all UFA years they could have just gone else where.
Marner is an RFA with only thing working for him is the offersheet, which by the looks of it aint working too well for him. so freaking sign for you're worth and end this fiasco already.

Leafs sign him for 5 years they are a fool. 4years, 6 or 7 can't have Marner and Matthews become UFA same year

 

[shakes]

I mean, it's probably just a coincidence that Marner's breakout year came with playing with JT. Totally coincidental. Back to back seasons with points in the 60s who just happen to blossom when paired with a guy who scored 47 goals.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marleau didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Kadri and Rielly didn’t take a discount. No one complained.

Shanahan created this narrative and it blew up. Let’s just acknowledge that fair is a range and Marner will sign within it.

Just like Nylander did

Kadri and Rielly took fair market value, based on where they were in their careers. That’s why nobody complained.
If they were holding out for far more than comparables we’re making, people definitely would have complained, and for good reason.

Marleau was a ufa, so I REFUSE to accept that as a comparable situation. Regardless, many many many people DID complain about that contract right from the moment it was signed.

 

[IPS]

I mean, it's probably just a coincidence that Marner's breakout year came with playing with JT. Totally coincidental. Back to back seasons with points in the 60s who just happen to blossom when paired with a guy who scored 47 goals.

I hear JVR and Bozak held him back but how come Phil Kessel never had any problems being elite with them?

Now I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, just playing a bit of devil's advocate.

 

[Pookie]

Aho’s elc numbers were better than Eichel... and he even played the same position last year.

How come Aho wasn’t “Eichel contract plus inflation”?

Aho had one year of slightly better numbers.

What’s the PPG for all 3 over their ELC years?

.81
.85 ELC and .91 career
.93

Match the number to the player and tell me how Marner is not Eichel plus inflation?

 

[Pookie]

9.5M is fair for Marner. he's the one who IF the rumors are true. wants an unrealistic amount of money on low term.....
okay to be fair 10 - 10.5M MAX for Marner. He's a winger for christ sakes and wingers don't make as much money it's pretty simple really.

how many wingers are making 10+?
okay maybe u can bring up Toews and Kane signing the same contract. but that was all UFA years they could have just gone else where.
Marner is an RFA with only thing working for him is the offersheet, which by the looks of it aint working too well for him. so freaking sign for you're worth and end this fiasco already.

Leafs sign him for 5 years they are a fool. 4years, 6 or 7 can't have Marner and Matthews become UFA same year

I’m fine with those numbers

I feel like 10.5-11.5 over 6-8 gets it done.

Less than 6 has to be under 10 in my opinion.

 

[MyBudJT]

I heard they said don’t call Marner greedy, except for the fact he’s asking for the highest % of the cap of any winger since the cap era...

This isn't true...

 

[Menzinger]

Aho had one year of slightly better numbers.

What’s the PPG for all 3 over their ELC years?

.81
.85 ELC and .91 career
.93

Match the number to the player and tell me how Marner is not Eichel plus inflation?

Eichel is a centre, and played on a far worse without linemates anywhere close to tavares. He also played his rookie NHl season while Marner was still in juniors even though hes from the same draft class.

We have a mountain of winger comps for Marner without using players from different positions

 

[ORRFForever]

Give him $10.5M for 5 and get it done.

 

[ajp4to]

Hope its September (or even earlier of course), but this is eerily reminiscent of the Nylander situation.

I think we are going to see a bunch of lopsided Marner trade proposals now like most/many of them on this page.

No team in the league is willing to pay Marner more then the leafs are already offering. The same happened with Nylander, no offer sheet was summited because he was already priced out of other teams (5.6M) worth range.

 

[Pookie]

Eichel is a centre, and played on a far worse without linemates anywhere close to tavares. He also played his rookie NHl season while Marner was still in juniors even though hes from the same draft class.

We have a mountain of winger comps for Marner without using players from different positions

Who are the winger comps at .93 PPG over the ELC years?

 

[Pookie]

No team in the league is willing to pay Marner more then the leafs are already offering. The same happened with Nylander, no offer sheet was summited because he was already priced out of other teams (5.6M) worth range.

Not quite. A team may be willing to pay the $ but they want more term as 4 picks for 5 years of service doesn’t make sense.

A better route for them is to sniff around a trade like Columbus is doing.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I mean, it's probably just a coincidence that Marner's breakout year came with playing with JT. Totally coincidental. Back to back seasons with points in the 60s who just happen to blossom when paired with a guy who scored 47 goals.

Conversely it's coincidental that Tavares sets a career high in goals with 47, getting 40+ for the first time in his career, when paired with Mitch.

 

[ORRFForever]

9.5M is fair for Marner. he's the one who IF the rumors are true. wants an unrealistic amount of money on low term.....
okay to be fair 10 - 10.5M MAX for Marner. He's a winger for christ sakes and wingers don't make as much money it's pretty simple really.

how many wingers are making 10+?
okay maybe u can bring up Toews and Kane signing the same contract. but that was all UFA years they could have just gone else where.
Marner is an RFA with only thing working for him is the offersheet, which by the looks of it aint working too well for him. so freaking sign for you're worth and end this fiasco already.

Leafs sign him for 5 years they are a fool. 4years, 6 or 7 can't have Marner and Matthews become UFA same year

If you gave him 4 years, he might take $9.5M.