Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

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Nineteen67

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I just worry he will get hurt and never be the same - either because he can't do "it" anymore, or he gets too scared to compete.

For that reason, I was pleased with a 5 years term.

If he continues to play soft like he has and keeps getting hurt they will be able unload him in year 4.

I hope he watches the playoffs and he and Willy decide they want to be a part of that. Although, I’m not holding my breath
 

Kiwi

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I heard WN agent say he doesn’t look other teams for player comparable when negotiating RFA contracts. He looks at the current teams salary structure.

The team doesn't have to though, it goes both ways

Marner's team want to use Matthews, the teams probably using Aho as there comparable
 

ORRFForever

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If he continues to play soft like he has and keeps getting hurt they will be able unload him in year 4.

I hope he watches the playoffs and he and Willy decide they want to be a part of that. Although, I’m not holding my breath
To his credit, he was terrific in Games 3 thru 7 against Boston.
 

Notsince67

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I agree. We do get a LOT of that.

Or stat splitting. Stats can be split in a billion ways and you can always crunch numbers to support an argument - that is why I don't waste my time doing it.

I think Marner is terrific - he is my favourite Leaf. I hope he stays one and realizes taking an offer sheet for a little extra money, will not be worth leaving everything he has.
Marner is better. The takes here are a joke. Guaranteed that when the two enter free agency, Marner will be paid more and he knows it. If Dubas wants to stay a gm for the leafs, he better get on the program of treating the kid with respect. If Marner is walked or decides to walk in 4 years, Dubas will be seen as the guy who lost a superstar. The future will show that. He wont work in the league in this capacity again.
 

Kiwi

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Position is a bs argument and goals over primary points is a consideration only dummies obsess about. Ive posted correlation coefficient differences which i am sure you have read yet you keep cycling around the same tiring and ill informed argument. Stop messaging me unless you have something new to say.

Now now sport, no need to get riled up

I'd like to know how position and Elite goal scoring numbers are BS for dummies though?

I'd have thought doing the hardest thing in the league at an elite rate would count for something, from a purely logic standpoint
 

biotk

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Jan 3, 2017
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You are world's biggest Matthews fan so I don't want to waste both our time by arguing about something that we will never agree on.

I feel Matthews is overpaid. You don't.

I have never changed my view on Matthews' contract from the day it was signed. You can go back through my posts to see.

These are my posts from that day:

"It is a bad deal."

"It's a bad deal. I don't think that Dubas had a choice. Offer sheets were going to come, despite what people on here think. None of Nylander, Matthews or Marner had/have any interest in signing a team friendly deal. You can ask why that is, but regardless it is reality. On the other hand, McDavid left money on the table to create a winning team, and we have all seen how that has worked out.
The next question is can Marner be signed for anything reasonable? My position is no - I think he will be more difficult to deal with."

"Interesting to note that the Pens won zero Cups when both Malkin and Crosby were under those big cap hits, but won the Cup the year before Malkin's contract, and won 2 Cups in the couple years after Malkin and Crosby signed third contracts for lower cap hits."

"Would you have thought that was a good deal last summer? Because I don't remember anyone thinking 11.6+ over 5 years was a good deal. I don't even remember anyone thinking that 11.6+ over 8 was a good deal. I think that it was the only deal that could be made. If not, he would have waited for an OS, and undoubtedly would have received an OS of at least that much. So it was a deal of necessity, but it is still bad."

"I would have been fine with the Leafs holding firm and accepting that they would probably lose him on an OS. However, I am sure that the Leafs crunched the numbers and decided it was better for their bottom line financially to have Matthews in the lineup than having him take an OS."

I feel based on Matthews contract, Marner is worth $10.5. You don't.

Doesn't matter what I feel. The Leafs felt that Matthews was worth signing for 11.6x5. Felt strongly enough that they agreed to it without a fight. They don't think Marner is worth what you think he is worth. You can say they are wrong, but that doesn't make it any less reality.

Unlike the Marner fan club, who feels that the team needs to dramatically over pay Marner, I have never supported the team overpaying Nylander, Matthews or Marner.
 

Nineteen67

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To his credit, he was terrific in Games 3 thru 7 against Boston.

He was good , but there were a few plays or lack of plays that stood out to me and I said it at the time he doesn’t yet know what it takes to be a champion.
 

Marshy

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Marner is better. The takes here are a joke. Guaranteed that when the two enter free agency, Marner will be paid more and he knows it. If Dubas wants to stay a gm for the leafs, he better get on the program of treating the kid with respect. If Marner is walked or decides to walk in 4 years, Dubas will be seen as the guy who lost a superstar. The future will show that. He wont work in the league in this capacity again.


This is the best hot take today.
 

ORRFForever

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Marner is better. The takes here are a joke. Guaranteed that when the two enter free agency, Marner will be paid more and he knows it. If Dubas wants to stay a gm for the leafs, he better get on the program of treating the kid with respect. If Marner is walked or decides to walk in 4 years, Dubas will be seen as the guy who lost a superstar. The future will show that. He wont work in the league in this capacity again.
Money's not everything, tho. Might be best to take a little less and hide behind Matthews and Tavares - let them take the heat if/when go wrong, and enjoy life.

If he leaves, he may look back and say, "I sure wish I was back in Toronto".
 

Kiwi

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If he continues to play soft like he has and keeps getting hurt they will be able unload him in year 4.

I hope he watches the playoffs and he and Willy decide they want to be a part of that. Although, I’m not holding my breath

He was our best goal scorer in the playoffs, by a fair bit so this take seems wildly inaccurate

Anything else you want to make up while your rolling?
 

Notsince67

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Now now sport, no need to get riled up

I'd like to know how position and Elite goal scoring numbers are BS for dummies though?

I'd have thought doing the hardest thing in the league at an elite rate would count for something, from a purely logic standpoint
Ovechkin, kucherov, brett and bobby hull....do you understand? Do you understand what a correlation coefficient of .04 between goals and primary assists means? Is there a better language to communicate to you so I dont need to repeat this?
 

ORRFForever

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I have never changed my view on Matthews' contract from the day it was signed. You can go back through my posts to see.

These are my posts from that day:

"It is a bad deal."

"It's a bad deal. I don't think that Dubas had a choice. Offer sheets were going to come, despite what people on here think. None of Nylander, Matthews or Marner had/have any interest in signing a team friendly deal. You can ask why that is, but regardless it is reality. On the other hand, McDavid left money on the table to create a winning team, and we have all seen how that has worked out.
The next question is can Marner be signed for anything reasonable? My position is no - I think he will be more difficult to deal with."

"Interesting to note that the Pens won zero Cups when both Malkin and Crosby were under those big cap hits, but won the Cup the year before Malkin's contract, and won 2 Cups in the couple years after Malkin and Crosby signed third contracts for lower cap hits."

"Would you have thought that was a good deal last summer? Because I don't remember anyone thinking 11.6+ over 5 years was a good deal. I don't even remember anyone thinking that 11.6+ over 8 was a good deal. I think that it was the only deal that could be made. If not, he would have waited for an OS, and undoubtedly would have received an OS of at least that much. So it was a deal of necessity, but it is still bad."

"I would have been fine with the Leafs holding firm and accepting that they would probably lose him on an OS. However, I am sure that the Leafs crunched the numbers and decided it was better for their bottom line financially to have Matthews in the lineup than having him take an OS."



Doesn't matter what I feel. The Leafs felt that Matthews was worth signing for 11.6x5. Felt so strongly enough that they agreed to it without a fight. They don't think Marner is worth what you think he is worth. You can say they are wrong, but that doesn't make it any less reality.
TBH, I'm still not sure what we're arguing.

Okay... We agree Matthews is overpaid. Glad to hear it.

I feel a million less for Marner, because he is a winger and not a goal scorer, is fair - especially in tax heavy Ontario.

I hope they find a middle ground in the $10.5M range.
 

ORRFForever

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Do I think Marner cares about money?


Yes
If he takes a big offer sheet, I think the extra pay will far outweigh what he could make in sponsorship.

I just think he's undervaluing playing on a team he dreamt about as a kid and in a market that loves him and hockey. Hope he realizes this and stays.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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Ovechkin, kucherov, brett and bobby hull....do you understand? Do you understand what a correlation coefficient of .04 between goals and primary assists means? Is there a better language to communicate to you so I dont need to repeat this?

Would you mind presenting your correlation argument again? I didn't see it but am very curious. Or just point me to the post, if possible.
 

Kiwi

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Ovechkin, kucherov, brett and bobby hull....do you understand? Do you understand what a correlation coefficient of .04 between goals and primary assists means? Is there a better language to communicate to you so I dont need to repeat this?

Do you understand that elite goal scorers get elite money because they score goals at elite rates?

Did he win the series?

So Marner's worth 5M because he sucked in the playoffs and really helped us lose?
 
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