Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[ORRFForever]

I'm also a Marner fan. I have his name on a jersey and I'm using him as my avatar right now. That doesn't mean I'm willing to ignore reality to support him

The Leafs should have told Matthews (as Steve Simmons said), "We are not paying anyone more than Tavares", and they should have stuck to it. They should have paid Matthews $10.5M and then Marner looks more realistic at $9.5. Instead they are overpaying for both.

 

[biotk]

Marner got 61pts in 77 games at 19 years old without Tavares in his rookie season. He’ll be fine.

Small winger who was tied for 35th in 5v5 points and 53rd in 5v5 goals over the two seasons before getting to play with Tavares. I have said from the get go that I would pay him 9x5 - despite that being a massive overpayment. I would have traded him before July 1st.

 

[Marshy]

Except that it is clearly in line with Leafs' management.

Most fans think Matthews is worth more too. Leafs fans and neutral fans.

 

[Superstar]

That would be amazing but we would have to add. And that add may be too much to convince Columbus to trade Jones.

Why would we have to add? Marner is as great as an elite goal-scoring franchise centre...

 

[biotk]

That doesn't make it right.

The Leafs are having trouble with the Cap because the overpaid Matthews and Nylander. If they had played hardball with both, they might have some extra cash instead of losing Marner.

The Leafs did play hardball with Nylander. The Leafs and Matthews readily agreed on what he was worth. The same is not happening with Marner because Marner thinks he is worth far more than the organization does. If he continues to hold firm they should be trading him to a team who thinks he is as valuable as you think he is.

 

[HolyCrap]

Why would we have to add? Marner is as great as an elite goal-scoring franchise centre...

Oops. I forgot about that fact.

 

[ORRFForever]

Perhaps Marner will go elsewhere, perform badly, and the Leafs will excel without him. I doubt it, but it's possible.

Then Matthews fans can gloat that Matthews is the straw that stirs the drink in Toronto and he is underpaid.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The Leafs should have told Matthews (as Steve Simmons said), "We are not paying anyone more than Tavares", and they should have stuck to it. They should have paid Matthews $10.5M and then Marner looks more realistic at $9.5. Instead they are overpaying for both.

Matthews' prime years are worth more than Tavares in decline

 

[ORRFForever]

The Leafs did play hardball with Nylander. The Leafs and Matthews readily agreed on what he was worth. The same is not happening with Marner because Marner thinks he is worth far more than the organization does. If he continues to hold firm they should be trading him to a team who thinks he is as valuable as you think he is.

You are world's biggest Matthews fan so I don't want to waste both our time by arguing about something that we will never agree on.

I feel Matthews is overpaid. You don't.

I feel based on Matthews contract, Marner is worth $10.5. You don't.

It is what it is.

 

[diceman934]

You realize Panarin and Stone are UFA'S not RFA'S right? I'd also like to point out Stone is possibly the best 2way winger in the game currently

He's also not an elite goal scoring franchise level center either like Matthews who's is I'd agree wildly overpaid

This argument is comparables who aren't actually comparables and an argument that because we were ******* idiots and massively overpaid once we should do it again, surprisingly enough I'm not entirely convinced by this 'logic'

There is no difference between UFA and Top RFA as far as contracts go. Times are changing so read up and understand. Gone are the days when RFA who are among the best players in the league are going to sign for less money then players they are better then. Marner is better and younger then both Panarin and Stone and should get paid like them.

Internal salary structure is a real thing. Always has been it is the biggest thing that goes against us getting Marner for long term at decent money. He will settle for less money then Mathews but the term will be similar. It is time that you and others understand that internal cap structure has always been the guiding light on contracts.

 

[ORRFForever]

Matthews' prime years are worth more than Tavares in decline

Not if he can't stay healthy, and it appears he can't.

Again, I feel he is overpaid. You don't. Neither of us is going to change our minds so...

 

[diceman934]

Matthews plays centre and scores goal at an elite level. He is easily worth more.

lol. He is a player who can not stay health and last season struggled defensively. He is not a better player then the guy who out produced him and everyone else on the team. Remind me what Stamkos a center signed for and then Kouch signed for a winger by the way.

 

[Marshy]

Not if he can't stay healthy, and it appears he can't.

Again, I feel he is overpaid. You don't. Neither of us is going to change our minds so...

He's overpaid today. He could easily be underpaid 12 months from now. I guess we'll see.

 

[diceman934]

Not if he can't stay healthy, and it appears he can't.

Again, I feel he is overpaid. You don't. Neither of us is going to change our minds so...

I am with you. Our salary structure was blown up signing Mathews to the biggest contract in the league by a wide margin. His term saw to that.

 

[ORRFForever]

He's overpaid today. He could easily be underpaid 12 months from now. I guess we'll see.

That's true.

But he could also be REALLY overpaid in 12 months if he gets injured or his production falls off.

Like you said, well see.

 

[ORRFForever]

I am with you. Our salary structure was blown up signing Mathews to the biggest contract in the league by a wide margin. His term saw to that.

I like to think you and I are right - "great minds" and all that.

 

[diceman934]

He's overpaid today. He could easily be underpaid 12 months from now. I guess we'll see.

He will not be over paid for a while now. The salary cap is going to stay flat next year and his term is horrible for the money. He will have to put produced McDavid for him to be considered a good contract. I simply do not see that happening

 

[ORRFForever]

He will not be over paid for a while now. The salary cap is going to stay flat next year and his term is horrible for the money. He will have to put produced McDavid for him to be considered a good contract. I simply do not see that happening

I agree with everything except the word "not" in your first sentence. I didn't understand it.

 

[ORRFForever]

For the record, I believe Marner's greed has gotten the best of him. It's too bad.

I think he should have spent his energy persuading the Leafs to pay him $10.5M, instead of encouraging an offer sheet. I think he will regret leaving Toronto.

 

[Marshy]

If he scores 100 points and 50 goals and takes the
Leafs to the finals while scoring big goals along the way. And the current RFAs reset the bar - all of a sudden Matthews deal looks a whole lot better.

 

[ORRFForever]

If he scores 100 points and 50 goals and takes the
Leafs to the finals while scoring big goals along the way. And the current RFAs reset the bar - all of a sudden Matthews deal looks a whole lot better.

Very true.

 

[Trapper]

He will not be over paid for a while now. The salary cap is going to stay flat next year and his term is horrible for the money. He will have to put produced McDavid for him to be considered a good contract. I simply do not see that happening

What’s the bar for Matthews to be considered underpaid?

Draisaitl had 50 - 55 last year.
Is that where Matthews should be to be considered underpaid? Or is that paid accordingly?
So what happens if he stays 40 some - 40 some?

 

[ORRFForever]

If Marner leaves, and I hope he doesn't, is there anyone we can pick up to help with the PK and PP the way he did?

 

[Kiwi]

There is no difference between UFA and Top RFA as far as contracts go. Times are changing so read up and understand. Gone are the days when RFA who are among the best players in the league are going to sign for less money then players they are better then. Marner is better and younger then both Panarin and Stone and should get paid like them.

Internal salary structure is a real thing. Always has been it is the biggest thing that goes against us getting Marner for long term at decent money. He will settle for less money then Mathews but the term will be similar. It is time that you and others understand that internal cap structure has always been the guiding light on contracts.

Bull****

If you can't tell the difference between an RFA who's major negotiating ploy for leverage is an offersheet (which is almost impossible to get and you have to be willing to sign it) and a UFA who can negotiate with litteraly everybody with zero restrictions I don't know what to tell you

He can certainly fight for Matthews money and he may potentially get it, he just needs to be willing to sign the offersheet that will garentee it for him and if he does I hope like hell we don't match

Let him go get his internal comparable (which isn't a comparable) somewhere else and they can deal with this lunacy

 

[ORRFForever]

What’s the bar for Matthews to be considered underpaid?

Draisaitl had 50 - 55 last year.
Is that where Matthews should be to be considered underpaid? Or is that paid accordingly?
So what happens if he stays 40 some - 40 some?

We'll know it when we see it.

Off the top of my head (to be considered UNDERPAID)...

Turn into Connor McDavid (smile).