Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[glue]

I feel $10.5M x 5 is fair and it is what I predicted if an Offer Sheet was not forthcoming.

Sorry if you’ve explained this already, but I’d like to understand why you believe 10.5 x 5 is a ‘Fair’ offer for Mitch? To clarify, I’m not being condescending, I’m genuinely curious. Although I can see the leafs ultimately giving into a deal like that (maybe), I definitely don’t believe it to be fair. It’s an Overpayment in my books. I don’t see him as being worth 2 mil more then Aho or only 1 mil less then Matthews. He should be at most 9.5 x 5 in my opinion

 

[biotk]

Would Dubas be able to trade him? I doubt teams are throwing big offers his way for the honour of overpaying Marner

No doubt his value on a trade return has been plummeting, but I think they can still find an ok return.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Guess we had better dump Nylander too, pretty much the same situation we had with him and his father last year except no one was threatening a potential offer sheet.

Nylander's negotiation was a failure by both sides to reach a timely agreement, but for all we know the negotiations were amicable and professional. Marner's camp is anything but professional

 

[Nineteen67]

Does anyone else think that the Leafs are better off taking their chances with $11+ million in cap space and 4 first round picks?

That space is significant and could be used to heavily upgrade the back end and it will be a major help next summer I’m retaining Muzzin and Barrie who they gave up a lot for!

I get the feeling the Leafs are about to part ways with Marner.

 

[biotk]

Guess we had better dump Nylander too, pretty much the same situation we had with him and his father last year except no one was threatening a potential offer sheet.

Where is the evidence of Michael being involved in any way last year?

 

[Marshy]

Marner is either going to have to agree to sign for fair market value or accept the fact that he will be traded. Dubas should be gauging the trade market for him right now. I still find it hard to believe a team will meet Paul's $ and Dubas' trade ask.

 

[TakeTheBody]

The Leafs should 100% pass on anything over $10,568,589. It's not just that the compensation is 4 1sts. It is also that if Marner chooses to sign an OS that high he is choosing to F-over the Leafs if they agree to match. It is disappointing that Dubas hasn't had he guts to trade him yet.

Agree. If we get four firsts, buh bye Mitch you made your choice and the Leafs made theirs. If this were too happen I hope the Leafs try and sign Tkachuk. Make sure the OS is below four firsts. If we lose one or two firsts, that's ok we gain over all and Tkachuk would bring a TON to our team.

 

[LeafSteel]

Dubas needs to start looking at trade value, and he could get moving Marner.

Trade opens the door for a lot of teams who would like to add a Marner but can’t go the offer sheet route.

It also benefits us in the now more than 1st rounders 4 years out and we would probably get several key pieces now as well as future picks.

I see Marner time in Toronto closing quickly.

 

[Marshy]

Sorry if you’ve explained this already, but I’d like to understand why you believe 10.5 x 5 is a ‘Fair’ offer for Mitch? To clarify, I’m not being condescending, I’m genuinely curious. Although I can see the leafs ultimately giving into a deal like that (maybe), I definitely don’t believe it to be fair. It’s an Overpayment in my books. I don’t see him as being worth 2 mil more then Aho or only 1 mil less then Matthews. He should be at most 9.5 x 5 in my opinion

9.5M X 5 is my absolute max too but if he wants my absolute max he's not getting a no trade clause.

 

[crump]

On using Marners cap space...

You can only protect 3 defencemen in the 2021 expansion draft, so Rielly, extend Barrie and Dermott, Muzzin is probably gone, so yes you could sign Barrie for another five years or so with some of the cap space, get your 4 first rounders and make space for Bracco.

Are leafs Better??? Marner’s damned good, it’s difficult to say you would ever draft another Marner even with 4 first rounders.

I would think you would have to go that route for anything over 11.5 over 8

 

[The Shadow]

Marner for Seth Jones ?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No doubt his value on a trade return has been plummeting, but I think they can still find an ok return.

Well, I think we'll see. If Dubas can find a good trade, I think he'll make it. I'm still hoping for a massive offer sheet that Dubas can't match. A reasonable deal in a timely fashion seems less and less likely

 

[biotk]

Agree. If we get four firsts, buh bye Mitch you made your choice and the Leafs made theirs. If this were too happen I hope the Leafs try and sign Tkachuk. Make sure the OS is below four firsts. If we lose one or two firsts, that's ok we gain over all and Tkachuk would bring a TON to our team.

I don't think the Leafs should turn around and OS Tkachuk. Although I think Tkachuk is great. As it stands right now the Leafs have 1 D signed beyond this season, and will have little cap to do so. With the freed up cap space they should be trying to re-sign some D to shore up their D long term, they should use some of that cap space to land a better backup goalie, and then they should wait until the trade deadline is near to trade a 1st obtained in the Marner OS to fill whatever their biggest hole turns out to be.

 

[ORRFForever]

Sorry if you’ve explained this already, but I’d like to understand why you believe 10.5 x 5 is a ‘Fair’ offer for Mitch? To clarify, I’m not being condescending, I’m genuinely curious. Although I can see the leafs ultimately giving into a deal like that (maybe), I definitely don’t believe it to be fair. It’s an Overpayment in my books. I don’t see him as being worth 2 mil more then Aho or only 1 mil less then Matthews. He should be at most 9.5 x 5 in my opinion

I did NOT take you question the wrong way....

2 reasons why I thought Marner would/should get $10.5M...

1) I believe Marner is Matthews equal, minus the fact that he is not a center and not a goal scorer. In fact, minus those two "Matthews pluses", Marner has been better than Matthews for the last 1.5 seasons.

Because of those two "deficiencies", I deducted $1.165M from Matthews salary and came up with $10.5M per year.

2) I figured Marner would ask for what Matthews got = $11.65.
I figured the Leafs would offer $9.5M
I figured the two would meet in the middle = $10.5M.

 

[biotk]

Well, I think we'll see. If Dubas can find a good trade, I think he'll make it. I'm still hoping for a massive offer sheet that Dubas can't match

Yes, that remains my hope.

 

[Nineteen67]

Guess we had better dump Nylander too, pretty much the same situation we had with him and his father last year except no one was threatening a potential offer sheet.

A couple of things.

I bet Nylander did get an offer.
Nylander’s agent said on Leafs Lunch that Willy drove the bus during the negotiating process
I never heard anything about Willy’s father being too involved.

 

[Nylander88]

Kinda funny if Marner ends up gone. Does all this work for a presentation video to try and recruit Tavares to Toronto as his linemate. Gets Tavares to boost his own value and then leaves town...you did Tavares dirty Mitch...

 

[Braun]

Kinda funny if Marner ends up gone. Does all this work for a presentation video to try and recruit Tavares to Toronto as his linemate. Gets Tavares to boost his own value and then leaves town...you did Tavares dirty Mitch...

Toronto did Marner dirty if they don’t match or come to terms.

 

[Fatass]

That wasn’t your point.

You questioned Marner losing sponsorships by saying Crosby and MacKinnon are in a Timmies ad.

Do you think Marner even cares about local sponsorship?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Toronto did Marner dirty if they don’t match or come to terms.

Toronto has no obligation to overpay Marner

 

[Fatass]

Guess we had better dump Nylander too, pretty much the same situation we had with him and his father last year except no one was threatening a potential offer sheet.

To be fair, no one offered on Willie because (like the Aho offer) it was low enough that it would clearly be matched.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, that remains my hope.

I think he was given an offer by the Islanders and he turned it down
.

 

[ORRFForever]

Do you think Marner even cares about local sponsorship?

I'm sure he LOVES the attention and the money is secondary.

 

[Braun]

Toronto has no obligation to overpay Marner

No one has the obligation to do anything, including Marner. Paying Marner equal to Matthews with his production numbers isn’t really overpaying. It’s just logic..

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

Do you think Marner even cares about local sponsorship?

He and those around him probably think that playing in a US market will increase their sponsorship opportunities. Never mind the far lower popularity of the sport in most US markets and Marner's awkward, cringe-worthy manner in front of the camera. There is some serious self-delusion and lack of self-awareness at work in the minds of some people in these negotiations...