Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[Gabriel426]

Do you really see Marner signing for something like 8.5x5? Like, ever?

Why can't it ever be the LEAF player who signs for something like 8.5x5 while the other comparables sign for far more? Why do the leafs always pay more than comparables?

Bc Sportsnet, TSN and other outlet will be saying Aho is the best Finnish C ever comes out of Finland. He will be compare to Wayne due to their similar size and how they play, then compare his PP mins to other elite players and say his numbers would only be higher if Babs use him like other Sid or McDavid....at the end even Aho himself will believe he is being slight for not having a big contract like McDavid.

 

[Amadeus]

Love Marner but trade him if it makes our team deeper.

Ryan Pulock (top pairing RHD)
Casey Cizikias (One of the better two-way players)
Oliver Wahlstrom
1st ‘20

 

[Notsince67]

Which type of firing would you pick in his shoes? Overpaying for Marner or not paying him at all? Sucks that paying fairly doesn't appear possible.

GMing is hard.

If you dont buy insurance, dont cry if your house burns down. Any negative aftermath from this negotiation is the result of not hedging assets properly.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Except that if Marner doesnt play, Dubas will be under increased scrutiny of why he didnt get it done. Should the leafs regress, Dubas will be fired and will unlikely procure another gm job. Marner will play again.

You mean Marner will be forever marked as hard to deal and negotiate with. He has it all and I mean it all in Toronto.

When was the last player coming off a ELC that turned down 10 million per?

If the rumors about him talking about respect are in any way true he should be careful how his camp speaks as it could end up biting him in the ass. It could have him playing elsewhere without the endorsements and home town hero status he currently enjoys.

 

[Marshy]

If you dont buy insurance, dont cry if your house burns down. Any negative aftermath from this negotiation is the result of not hedging assets properly.

If he won't sign for what they can afford he will bring a nice haul of cost controlled assets. It's not all doom and gloom.

 

[thewave]

No I don't see that ever for Mitch and why do they pay more? Probably because the Toronto GM's lack the stones to stand up to players who take on the perceived persona of a hockey god in Toronto. Dubas lost his cost structure when he caved with Nylander. Nylander is at best our 5th or 6th best player (Matthews, Tavares, Mitch, Andersen, Rielly) and Dubas did not think he had the leverage to make the kid sit for a season.

I posted this before but I think a fair contract sits somewhere between $7.3 mil and $10.8 mil but I don't think money is the sticking point, its term IMO

It a pretty simple calculation what Marner should be worth, Aho set the market for 21 year old wingers @ $8.454 per year. Granted Aho played center last year but 66.6% of his career was at RW. IMO his contract is based on mostly winger production.

• If you covet goals and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $7,326,800 per year.
• If you covet points and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $9,574,410 per year.
• If you covet assists and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $10,846642 per year.

Avg between goals and pts... 8,450,000 roughly. Easy peasy, it's basically the Aho contract. Assists are not important comparatively.

 

[Notsince67]

You mean Marner will be forever marked as hard to deal and negotiate with. He has it all and I mean it all in Toronto.

When was the last player coming off a ELC that turned down 10 million per?

If the rumors about him talking about respect are in any way true he should be careful how his camp speaks as it could end up biting him in the ass. It could have him playing elsewhere without the endorsements and home town hero status he currently enjoys.

10mm per for how long. I was unaware of any offer.

 

[Notsince67]

If he won't sign for what they can afford he will bring a nice haul of cost controlled assets. It's not all doom and gloom.

Still wont save Dubas's job.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Aho has also tasted round 3 of the playoffs. Round 3 where no Mitch, Willie or Matty have boldly gone.

Yeah playing the Caps and Isles instead of the Bruins will do that for you.

 

[Marshy]

Still wont save Dubas's job.

It's a results business. Marner or the assets he brings back need to help them start winning some playoff rounds or Babs and Dubie could both be gone. Babs will be first to go though. Dubes has one bullet to hire his own coach A.K.A Sheldon K.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I love mitch but no way in hell is he worth 11 million. Kutch is at 9.5 and easily outpaces him. Aho is very comparable and got 8.5

He is not worth AM money as he is not a 22 year old 40 goal scoring 1C

If he wants a record setting payday then sign a deal that doesnt hamstring the entire team and earn it on his next deal or he can join Phil in Az for all I care.

Crest on the front before the name on the back.

But he is a 22 year old 90+ point player he is worth no less than 10.5 to me kuch is a bad compare able because he even at 9.5 is on a bargain contract

 

[Notsince67]

But he is a 22 year old 90+ point player he is worth no less than 10.5 to me kuch is a bad compare able because he even at 9.5 is on a bargain contract

Matthews right now is less valuble than Kucherov. One cannot use the argument that Matthews will be better eventually without making the same argument for Marner.

 

[TheProspector]

It's a results business. Marner or the assets he brings back need to help them start winning some playoff rounds or Babs and Dubie could both be gone. Babs will be first to go though. Dubes has one bullet to hire his own coach A.K.A Sheldon K.

looool

No.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Matthews right now is less valuble than Kucherov. One cannot use the argument that Matthews will be better eventually without making the same argument for Marner.

Matthews makes more because Matthews is a center and centers for the most part should make more.

If thy don't it is usually becaus they gave you a heavy discount like Samkos backstrom and Kuznetsov did

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Matthews makes more because Matthews is a center and centers for the most part should make more.

If thy don't it is usually becaus they gave you a heavy discount like Samkos backstrom and Kuznetsov did

Kuch not a centre but agree otherwise

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Matthews right now is less valuble than Kucherov. One cannot use the argument that Matthews will be better eventually without making the same argument for Marner.

Matthews is a better scorer than Kucherov, and he plays center. How people still can't see Matthews value and beat him up to make Marner have better value is beyond ridiculous to me.

Only players with a better era adjusted even strength goals per game ratio through their first 3 seasons than Matthews are Gretzky, Lindros, Ovechkin, and Selanne.

Yes Kucherov is great but Matthews produced at a generational level at the hardest way to score through his ELC and he plays center.

He's the best even strength goal scoring center at his age the league has had since Lindros and yet you have him and a guy that got carried heavily (Marner) by a play driving center (Tavares) as equally valuable?

 

[Notsince67]

Kuch not a centre but agree otherwise

Centers vs wingers are a bit of a myth.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Elite level wingers are pretty equal to centers, dunno if Mitch is there yet though ...Kuch, Kane, Ove, maybe a few more ...

 

[Marshy]

looool

No.

I have no idea what this means.

 

[MLSE]

It's not that Marner has a greedy family or agent and he's just a simple hockey player.

It's pretty clear that Marner views himself as pretty similar to McDavid and Matthews and would like the cash to legitimize that belief.

I mean you could be right but I strongly believe his influences around him have a strong impact.

 

[Superstar]

With Aho finally matched officially, maybe Montreal attacks here with something dumb.

Marner to Montreal, Carey Price career ending injury in October. Bam. Amazing draft picks.

Why would they be dumb now? If they were dumb, they would have offered Aho over $9.5 million...Montreal needs a centre, and they won't pay Marner more than Price.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews is a better scorer than Kucherov, and he plays center. How people still can't see Matthews value and beat him up to make Marner have better value is beyond ridiculous to me.

Only players with a better era adjusted even strength goals per game ratio through their first 3 seasons than Matthews are Gretzky, Lindros, Ovechkin, and Selanne.

Yes Kucherov is great but Matthews produced at a generational level at the hardest way to score through his ELC and he plays center.

He's the best even strength goal scoring center at his age the league has had since Lindros and yet you have him and a guy that got carried heavily (Marner) by a play driving center (Tavares) as equally valuable?

Goals per game are a bit of a joke. Why not total goals? Why not primary points? Because he has only hit 40 goals 3 years ago as a career high. He was 17th in goals this year and 44th in points. The torquing around here is something else.

 

[Mess]

Marner's camp needs to either sign an offersheet or stop flogging the suggestion of it to the media.

It was Dubas that caused this increase of OS chatter because of his personal service announcement to the other 30 NHL teams when he went public and said in an interview "Leafs may or may not match an OS depending on the term/amount".. That's an open door invitation to bring on your best offersheet, and test us to see if we match or you get Mitch if we don't".

If his message was supposed to be directed at Marner, then he would have told that in private to Ferris that if Marner signs a OS he better be prepared to leave as there is no guarantee we're matching all offers and the public and the 30 other teams wouldn't need to know that and get the stop flogging the idea in the media out of his head.

By not definitively shooting down all OS talk with the standard "We're prepared to match all offers" publicly, its now created a hornets nest of self inflicted increase talk, rumours and speculation that one is imminent as Marner is available if your offer is too high for our liking.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

OR : Toronto matches, you play here for 4, you get paid $8M/yr, then you get to choose your money and destination - no strings attached.

Or...you play the 1 year and the Leafs ship you out into the hinterlands of hockey where you toil 3 years on a garbage team and all of your stats take a hit thus messing up your ask for that precious first year of UFA

 

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

I have a hard time believing guys that got almost 130 points are not better than a guy that got just above 70 points.

Ask yourself.... How is a player that got almost fifty less points paid roughly three million more? This is why this team will never win a Cup.

I like Mattews. I think he is the most talented player we have ever had and I think he will smash many Leaf records, but he got way too much and way too soon. Same with Nylander and soon with Marner.

If these guys took team friendly deals on their first contracts and won multiple cups I would have no problem paying them lucrative contracts in their late 20s to early and mid 30s.