Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[Gallagbi]

If we fast forward to an imaginary Stanley Cup celebration a couple of years down the line, I have an easier time thinking it's because Auston Matthews realized his full potential as that big Crosby Malkin hybrid franchise center than Mitch Marner scoring 100 points more or less playing the kind of game he's playing today.

Keep in mind Marner's 94 points came on the wing of John Tavares. I'm not going to say Marner's a creation of Tavares because the eye test tells you Marner was the straw that stirs that line. But at the same time, it's not like we gave Auston Matthews the wing equivalent of John Tavares to play with either. Kapanen and Johnsson combined make half as much as Tavares.

Honestly, I can see Matthews being a Kopitar in a win and Marner being a Kane. Both haven't done it yet and may never. I think Matthews is closer to that level now though.

 

[CelticDruid]

It's not that Marner has a greedy family or agent and he's just a simple hockey player.

It's pretty clear that Marner views himself as pretty similar to McDavid and Matthews and would like the cash to legitimize that belief.

Perhaps we should just build him a statue and get it over with.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I think it is unlikely that it will get that high because i cant believe that the two parties havent at lease agreed on a number. I think the issue is term. Dubas can be this dumb to strap the teams cap numbers by signing cici. He would have hedged his bets. My guess is the number comes between 8 to 9.5mm from 2 years to 5 years.

Bingo we have a winner. I absolutely 100 per cent think we have a number that both sides agree on. It’s term that is the sticking point. Marner wants less dubas wants more. It will get done

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It can't go to November unless the Leafs shed cap space. If they waited till November the cap hit for the Leafs on a $11 mil contract would be something like $13- $14 mil

That’s a myth.
Man, it really is frustrating so many people still think this.

 

[ORRFForever]

Perhaps we should just build him a statue and get it over with.

Who? Matthews or Marner?

Oh wait... Dubas and Leaf fans have already built one for Matthews, but instead of it being Bobby Orr flying thru the air, it is Matthews scoring 4 goals on opening night.

Those 4 goals have allowed Matthews to play with "house money" for 3 years and counting.

 

[Notsince67]

One more thing to add.

We aren't going to be hearing about these non-signed offersheets because Marner's camp isn't going to tell Dreger that they are receiving 9.5Mx7 offers.

Because he told you?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Nylander just posted some pictures on Instagram at what looks like a wedding maybe, of Willy, Kap, Marner and Freddy Andersen. Hopefully they give him a gentle nudge in the right direction!

Side note, the pic of Mitch looks like he's at Grade 8 Grad!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Just give him 11X5 and be done with this.

You have team that is arguably better than what you had last year with the addition of Barrie and Ceci,.

You got Matthews Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot and Mooe up front .

You Rielly Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci, Dermott on defense

You got Andersen in net.

That's a team that can win a cup get Marner signed and go f***ing win it.

This is the BEST chance you have get Marner signed and go f***ing win it

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nylander just posted some pictures on Instagram at what looks like a wedding maybe, of Willy, Kap, Marner and Freddy Andersen. Hopefully they give him a gentle nudge in the right direction!

Side note, the pic of Mitch looks like he's at Grade 8 Grad!

Yeah, it’s Hymans wedding.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Just give him 11X5 and be done with this.

You have team that is arguably better than what you had last year with the addition of Barrie and Ceci,.

You got Matthews Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot and Mooe up front .

You Rielly Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci, Dermott on defense

You got Andersen in net.

That's a team that can win a cup get Marner signed and go ****ing win it.

This is the BEST chance you have get Marner signed and go ****ing win it

Aho at 8.5x5 and Marner at 11x5 is a filthy disgusting joke.

 

[ORRFForever]

Nylander just posted some pictures on Instagram at what looks like a wedding maybe, of Willy, Kap, Marner and Freddy Andersen. Hopefully they give him a gentle nudge in the right direction!

Side note, the pic of Mitch looks like he's at Grade 8 Grad!

Given who his dad is, how does Nylander still have all his beautiful hair?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Aho at 8.5x5 and Marner at 11x5 is a filthy disgusting joke.

Marner is a better player and I don't think that can be debated

 

[Bigmarycombo]

True...

But you would, too, if you outperformed Matthews, stayed healthy when Matthews didn't, played on the PK when Matthews didn't, but kept being treated like the Ugly Step Sister by the Leafs.

And dint get the bonuses Matthews got. Stupid Lou

 

[nuck]

Okay. Fair enough and I can see your point of view :

For the Leafs to win a Cup, Matthews needs to improve because Marner is closer to his peak.

Still, I would like to see a big improvement from Matthews before we anoint him "God Of Leaf-Land" because he has not progressed like I thought he might in Seasons 2 and 3.

Injured two years in a row and hardly playing with top line talent all last season the progression is still there. No knee injuries and the shoulder injuries weren't to the same side. I guess there is sort of a question mark there but only because of the number of injuries, not the severity. He was stronger last year and he will be stronger yet this year so he is less likely to get hurt again the same way. He has to stay healthy though, but if he does, playing between the two Swedes this should be the season they paid for. Matty is a fast started and that will help his line mates get untracked early and get some confidence. Marner and JT are relentless and the better Matthews line looks, the harder it will be to match against the Leafs because there were extended periods last season where other teams could key mostly on Tavares and Marner. Mikheyev will have a great opportunity to have a big year starting off in the top 6 and now they have Barrie to help get them out of the zone the way Zaits couldn't.

 

[ORRFForever]

And dint get the bonuses Matthews got. Stupid Lou

Yup.

 

[Marshy]

Don't care anymore. Play for he team who wants to pay him the most or don't.

I'm prioritizing players who want to be Maple Leafs. If max AAV is your idol I'm done with you on this team. Take your act elsewhere.

 

[ORRFForever]

Matty is a fast starter...

He certainly is that. He starts every season like a house on fire.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

That would be okay I think. He can prove he is worth as much as AM or at least worth the 10.6 and they can try a playoff run with this lineup. If the deal is for 5 unless he is Kuch 2.0 they should deal him next summer. 5 years means they are setting themselves up to get jacked for max money again with him going into his UFA years and they are already at risk of Matthew's and Willie doing it the same year.

So what your saying is it’s ok for willy and Matthews to sign bigger contracts in five years but we shouldn’t do that with marner.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner is a better player and I don't think that can be debated

Yes it can. Aho got 83 points last year with Teravainen as his best line mate. And he STILL scores more goals. Imagine Aho played with a Tavares type talent while Marner played with a Teravainen talent.

Yeah...

 

[nuck]

Marner is a better player and I don't think that can be debated

Why not? Was there anyone on Carolina as talented as Tavares playing with him? Was there anyone on Carolina other than Aho that you might line match against? And he is a center, and he is a better goal scorer. Very similar talents, Aho is legit. If Aho never tops 90pts and Marner is a 100pt guy, both of which are quite possible, then there is some actual separation and maybe an argument but not yet.
In my homer heart I like Marner a bit more but it is very close, and if the Leafs didn't have Tavares or Matthews, and could add only one of Marner or Aho I think the club would take the center. A #1 center is only behind a #1 D in value to a team and we were reminded of this for year as Leaf fans after Sittler left, and again after Sundin. Build up the middle, because scoring wingers are available as UFAs pretty much every year, but top 6 centers not so much.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Marner is a better player and I don't think that can be debated

It easily can. Marner being worth 2.5 million more per year can't be debated though

 

[nuck]

So what your saying is it’s ok for willy and Matthews to sign bigger contracts in five years but we shouldn’t do that with marner.

The problem is it becomes a worse mistake every time you do it, in terms of asset management. You can't prepare for how bad you are going to get dinged on a deal, and because of the uncertainty, of the market and of player expectations, a team can get in some trouble having to create that much new space in a single season. They need to spread the expiry of the deals out. Willie signed for 6 he just didn't show up for the first one, Matthews was just a bad deal because he got generational front loading with a short term and still stuck them for top dollar. A much worse deal than Willie, but a much more valuable player and more likely to generate an OS. With Mitch, they were expecting to sign the hometown boy for 8 years but in demanding equity with Matthews, that would include the same stupid short term and of course the same front loading. If Marner signs for 4 or 6-7-8 that gives the club more time to absorb the costs and make the necessary changes. Willies deal was an overpay and he should have sat out, but KD would have been a pariah if the Leafs didn't win a Cup. Matthews deal, I don't know, but they obviously smelled blood after the Nylander debacle,

The clubs goal is to maximize the talent on the team, not to maximize the players earning opportunities. The players don't have to give money back after a bad year, and teams are heavily penalized for trying to get out from under bad deals, plus the cap system allows more stable franchises and more player jobs, so the players have a stake in making things work as well. My opinion is, that Marner needing that 5 year deal means he intends to take the club to the cleaners again ASAP to maximize his paycheck(like Matthews), and they already have two of those pricks locked up. Its the downside to waiting to be the third deal in hopes of benefiting from the earlier negotiations. There may not be enough left to give you what you want.

 

[Kiwi]

Just give him 11X5 and be done with this.

You have team that is arguably better than what you had last year with the addition of Barrie and Ceci,.

You got Matthews Tavares, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot and Mooe up front .

You Rielly Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci, Dermott on defense

You got Andersen in net.

That's a team that can win a cup get Marner signed and go ****ing win it.

This is the BEST chance you have get Marner signed and go ****ing win it

Why not just give him league max for 4 years? Since we're being absolute crazy people we may as well do it properly instead of just mostly unhinged

 

[Notsince67]

Yes it can. Aho got 83 points last year with Teravainen as his best line mate. And he STILL scores more goals. Imagine Aho played with a Tavares type talent while Marner played with a Teravainen talent.

Yeah...

Marner ran roughly the same ppg with kadri as Tavares

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Marner ran roughly the same ppg with kadri as Tavares

So what? This past season (contract year), Aho put up more goals and almost as many points with (lol) Teravainen as Marner did with John f***ing Tavares.