Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[Bluelines]

Not for nothing but there are two UFA's avail that scored 26 goals and 23 goal last year, Mitch scored 26. I love Mitch I think he is a great talent, an amazing talent. It a pretty simple calculation what Marner should be worth, Aho set the market for 21 year old wingers @ $8.454 per year.

• If you covet goals and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $7,326,800 per year.
• If you covet points and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $9,574,410 per year.
• If you covet assists and use Aho as the baseline Marner should be at $10,846642 per year.

 

[Bluelines]

KHL team offering 15M so this going to November.

It can't go to November unless the Leafs shed cap space. If they waited till November the cap hit for the Leafs on a $11 mil contract would be something like $13- $14 mil

 

[Kiwi]

Does Dubas think it is a disgrace? What possible logic pays matthews more than 7.5mm more over 5 years than Marner?

Besides the center and elite level goalscoring bit?

Making a mistake and doing the same thing again is what idiots do, that's why were not buckling at the moment it would seem, Dubas has learnt something from his other mistakes

Sanity at last

 

[Dreakmur]

A 1.6mm less than Matthews contract is already outrageous. Risking losing a player like Marner for the sake of lowballing further relative to what he has given out is incompetent. What was he thinking when he handed out that contract and Marner was close to a 100 point streak?....that he would pay Marner 3mm less? Who does that?

So Dubas is stupid for offering 10 million, because that is too much. He is also stupid for not offering more than 10 million, because that's not too much.

 

[Notsince67]

So Dubas is stupid for offering 10 million, because that is too much. He is also stupid for not offering more than 10 million, because that's not too much.

He is in damage control. Many were against the rich contracts because they knew it wasnt paid in full until Marner was signed.

 

[Goose]

10.1 x 6 is my guess

 

[MLSE]

But being soft doesn't work, either - and it's gotten us into the mess.

If I was a player, I would prefer a GM who is 100% honest so I know where I stand.

In life, no one can ever fault you for being honest.

Honesty is one thing.

Take it or leave it with terms in a harsh manner like you laid out, is not the way to keep loyalty.

Dubas being nice isn't necessarily why Marner is asking for more money. It could be he has greedy people around him.

I know first hand Ferris and Paul Marner are greedy pigs.

Nylander... his dad is a well known greedy man.

You run into things some times.

Dubas literally hasnt caved on Marner and he let Nylander go until the last minute.

 

[MLSE]

I use to negotiate quite a bit in my business life.

At first, companies bidding for my business would play games. They'd offer A and then come back with A-1 and then A-2, etc.

I eventually said, "I am NOT looking to negotiate. Everyone gets to make ONE offer. Make it your BEST offer because you will NOT get a 2nd chance."

For me, being honest worked.

How do you know the Leafs don't only have one offer on the table and now Marner is playing the field because he thinks he's worth more.

Maybe what youre saying is exactly what their doing.

In business though youre not going to completely shut out the asset if they play the field. We're all in it for money, its understable, its the name of the game. Their playing chicken.. this is the Leafs number, Marners number is too high so.... Go find out your market value, by all means.

 

[biotk]

A 1.6mm less than Matthews contract is already outrageous. Risking losing a player like Marner for the sake of lowballing further relative to what he has given out is incompetent. What was he thinking when he handed out that contract and Marner was close to a 100 point streak?....that he would pay Marner 3mm less? Who does that?

Probably a management team that views Marner as being significantly less valuable than Matthews going forward.

 

[ORRFForever]

Anyone who keeps Ferris as an agent can only be the rotten brother.

My laugh for the day.

 

[ORRFForever]

That is awesome.

Thanks, mang.

 

[crump]

Probably a management team that views Marner as being significantly less valuable than Matthews going forward.

No doubt. As good as Marner is (elite creativity and vision), Mathews is close to generational imo.

 

[horner]

Honesty is one thing.

Take it or leave it with terms in a harsh manner like you laid out, is not the way to keep loyalty.

Dubas being nice isn't necessarily why Marner is asking for more money. It could be he has greedy people around him.

I know first hand Ferris and Paul Marner are greedy pigs.

Nylander... his dad is a well known greedy man.

You run into things some times.

Dubas literally hasnt caved on Marner and he let Nylander go until the last minute.

Mathews not greedy ?

Greedy players don't win cup.
Mathews Marner Nylander all greed, haven't done shit yet .
Can't even win a Rd verses Boston.
I wish we could redo this rebuild get players that actually have the heart and guts to play for each other not themselves .
Our core will not get it done.

 

[ORRFForever]

How do you know the Leafs don't only have one offer on the table and now Marner is playing the field because he thinks he's worth more.

Maybe what youre saying is exactly what their doing.

In business though youre not going to completely shut out the asset if they play the field. We're all in it for money, its understable, its the name of the game. Their playing chicken.. this is the Leafs number, Marners number is too high so.... Go find out your market value, by all means.

I agree.

I think he should NOT get too greedy because he may regret it - a bird in hand and all that.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I know first hand Ferris and Paul Marner are greedy pigs.

What first hand knowledge of both Ferris and Paul Marner being greedy pigs do you have?

 

[Stephen]

If we fast forward to an imaginary Stanley Cup celebration a couple of years down the line, I have an easier time thinking it's because Auston Matthews realized his full potential as that big Crosby Malkin hybrid franchise center than Mitch Marner scoring 100 points more or less playing the kind of game he's playing today.

Keep in mind Marner's 94 points came on the wing of John Tavares. I'm not going to say Marner's a creation of Tavares because the eye test tells you Marner was the straw that stirs that line. But at the same time, it's not like we gave Auston Matthews the wing equivalent of John Tavares to play with either. Kapanen and Johnsson combined make half as much as Tavares.

 

[Stephen]

Honesty is one thing.

Take it or leave it with terms in a harsh manner like you laid out, is not the way to keep loyalty.

Dubas being nice isn't necessarily why Marner is asking for more money. It could be he has greedy people around him.

I know first hand Ferris and Paul Marner are greedy pigs.

Nylander... his dad is a well known greedy man.

You run into things some times.

Dubas literally hasnt caved on Marner and he let Nylander go until the last minute.

It's not that Marner has a greedy family or agent and he's just a simple hockey player.

It's pretty clear that Marner views himself as pretty similar to McDavid and Matthews and would like the cash to legitimize that belief.

 

[Legendary]

Theres no offer sheet coming can Dubas just do a sign and trade already.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Theres no offer sheet coming can Dubas just do a sign and trade already.

Just about every other significant RFA on the market (Rantanen, Point etc.) is unsigned and making demands just like Marner. They all want 4 or 5 year deals leading them up to UFA status where they can cash in after the league supposedly signs a huge TV deal with NBC. I'm skeptical of the cap rising to $100M but the agents smell blood in the water and are determined to take advantage of the absence of salary arbitration.

The bottom line is that teams are going to have to start letting players sit the season. It seems harsh but that's the reality of the situation.

The next CBA must include arbitration following entry level contracts.

 

[stickty111]

So Dubas is stupid for offering 10 million, because that is too much. He is also stupid for not offering more than 10 million, because that's not too much.

 

[ORRFForever]

If we fast forward to an imaginary Stanley Cup celebration a couple of years down the line, I have an easier time thinking it's because Auston Matthews realized his full potential as that big Crosby Malkin hybrid franchise center than Mitch Marner scoring 100 points more or less playing the kind of game he's playing today.

Keep in mind Marner's 94 points came on the wing of John Tavares. I'm not going to say Marner's a creation of Tavares because the eye test tells you Marner was the straw that stirs that line. But at the same time, it's not like we gave Auston Matthews the wing equivalent of John Tavares to play with either. Kapanen and Johnsson combined make half as much as Tavares.

So...

We overpay Matthews for an imaginary moment that may never come?

 

[Stephen]

So...

We overpaid Matthews for an imaginary moment that may never come?

Typically, this kind of situation is called an "investment."

 

[Stephen]

Just about every other significant RFA on the market (Rantanen, Point etc.) is unsigned and making demands just like Marner. They all want 4 or 5 year deals leading them up to UFA status where they can cash in after the league supposedly signs a huge TV deal with NBC. I'm skeptical of the cap rising to $100M but the agents smell blood in the water and are determined to take advantage of the absence of salary arbitration.

The bottom line is that teams are going to have to start letting players sit the season. It seems harsh but that's the reality of the situation.

The next CBA must include arbitration following entry level contracts.

The NHL has been chasing that NBA Cable Money Dream for twenty years. If the Rogers deal was any indication, the NHL is kind of a money loser and I think in store for a rude awakening

 

[Notsince67]

Probably a management team that views Marner as being significantly less valuable than Matthews going forward.

Pretty observant

 

[ORRFForever]

Typically, this kind of situation is called an "investment."

Okay. Fair enough and I can see your point of view :

For the Leafs to win a Cup, Matthews needs to improve because Marner is closer to his peak.

Still, I would like to see a big improvement from Matthews before we anoint him "God Of Leaf-Land" because he has not progressed like I thought he might in Seasons 2 and 3.