Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[biotk]

who cares what paul thinks man

Marner's agent - who incidentally has been with the family for a very long time and probably believes the same things as Paul.

And lets not forget that from the time someone like Mitch was young he was competing every day to get ahead. It was cut-throat. It was super expensive. Your parents make massive sacrifices for you. The kids you play with and against want to replace you at the top. You come to distrust most people and only trust a few. Your father and agent are often the center of a very small group who you feel you can trust. You do the on ice stuff. They take care of the rest of it.

This isn't like the old days when Bobby Orr at age 14 said to his parents, I am leaving to go play hockey hundreds of miles away, and his parents said, see you next summer.

 

[PromisedLand]

Marner's agent - who incidentally has with the family for a very long time and believes the same things as Paul.

Ferris is a known nutcase. Nylander's agent (same as Gaudreau) was reported to be asking for the sky; burke was on record saying that during gaudreau's negotiations the agent's ask was absolutely ridiculous.

Agent's cut is tied directly to the contract they get the players; so agents will always look to get a bigger contract as it maximizes their earning potential and also serves as advertisement to potential future players

If anything, Marner could technically fire Ferris; am not sure if Marner is bound by some kind of contract that he has to negotiate using Ferris and that cannot be broken or something.

Regardless of anything; last season when it was reported that Marner camp was willing to sign for 72 million for 8 years; Dubas could have negotiated the contracts for both Marner and Nylander at 8AAV for 8 years

8AAV Nylander and Marner 8 years
Matthews (could have been 8 too but lets say it is what is now) 11.6 for 5 years

TOTAL for 5 years: 27.6 AAV for 5 years for all three of them with Nylander and Marner locked in for 2 and 3 more years respectively

the situation now:

Nylander: 7 AAV for 6 years
Matthews: 11.6 AAV for 5 years
Marner (assume) 10 AAV for 5 years

TOTAL 5 years: 28.6 AAV and all of them UFAs at the same time

Dubas' foresight was ridiculous; and now the team and us as fans are paying for his incompetence

 

[Ciao]

a deal/contract would be negotiated by the other team and then the trade would go through

Sure so the Leafs who bend over backwards can't meet his demands but Team X will? Yeah. I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[kb]

Sure so the Leafs who bend over backwards can't meet his demands but Team X will? Yeah. I'll believe that when I see it.

Here's how it works. He tries that with a second team, he can kiss the rest of his career goodbye. Someone will take the chance on him now. But it's his last chance.

And he can look back at the best thing he ever had, and regret how he screwed it all up because he listened to 2 complete morons.

 

[Ciao]

Marner's agent - who incidentally has been with the family for a very long time and probably believes the same things as Paul.

And lets not forget that from the time someone like Mitch was young he was competing every day to get ahead. It was cut-throat. It was super expensive. Your parents make massive sacrifices for you. The kids you play with and against want to replace you at the top. You come to distrust most people and only trust a few. Your father and agent are often the center of a very small group who you feel you can trust. You do the on ice stuff. They take care of the rest of it.

This isn't like the old days when Bobby Orr at age 14 said to his parents, I am leaving to go play hockey hundreds of miles away, and his parents said, see you next summer.

Maybe you know a bit more about Marner than you do about Orr.

When Orr made the Oshawa Generals at age 14 his mother wouldn't let him leave home. He stayed in Parry Sound to attend school during the week and was allowed to play games with the Generals on weekends. He didn't have to attend practices.

However, the comparison is very faint: Marner is no Orr.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Sure so the Leafs who bend over backwards can't meet his demands but Team X will? Yeah. I'll believe that when I see it.

just saying thats what would happen if a trade went down

 

[Ciao]

Here's how it works. He tries that with a second team, he can kiss the rest of his career goodbye. Someone will take the chance on him now. But it's his last chance.

And he can look back at the best thing he ever had, and regret how he screwed it all up because he listened to 2 complete morons.

I get your point, and happen to agree, but the issue precedes that: how does the second team reach a contract on terms the Leafs wont meet?

The Toronto Maple Leafs are not cheap and if anything are overly generous on player contracts.

I don't know who Paul Marner deals with if he can't deal with the Leafs.

 

[Superstar]

Eichel is signed for 8 years at a lower cap hit, plays a more desireable position and can snipe with the best of them. don't forget that speed. i am playing devils advocate here but it's not as clear cut as you think. This would be a pretty even trade, not that Buffalo would do it!

I'm sure Eichel could do very well playing on Tavares' wing.

 

[Ciao]

just saying thats what would happen if a trade went down

If Paul Marner can find any team anywhere that will be more generous to his son than the Toronto Maple Leafs, then he should advise Mitch to sign there.

Emphasis on "if".

That's one mighty big "if".

 

[kb]

I get your point, and happen to agree, but the issue precedes that: how does the second team reach a contract on terms the Leafs wont meet?

The Toronto Maple Leafs are not cheap and if anything are overly generous on player contracts.

I don't know who Paul Marner deals with if he can't deal with the Leafs.

I feel that if Mitch loses out on the Leafs, he's going to grow up and tell his dad to back off. Paul is killing Mitch's dreams with his trusty lapdog Ferris....

 

[Mr Hockey]

If Paul Marner can find any team anywhere that will be more generous to his son than the Toronto Maple Leafs, then he should advise Mitch to sign there.

Emphasis on "if".

That's one mighty big "if".

Leafs will sign him eventually, I don't worry about this Mitch thing and I don't trust the media guys speculating and bs'ing

 

[PromisedLand]

If Paul Marner can find any team anywhere that will be more generous to his son than the Toronto Maple Leafs, then he should advise Mitch to sign there.

Emphasis on "if".

That's one mighty big "if".

man this has ferris written all over it.

Look at Ferris clients

Contracts by Agent | Puckpedia

biggest contract there is Taylor Hall at 6AAV (42 million dollars total)

Marner is his big ticket item and he is trying his best to get the most out of the Leafs.

This was the article on yahoo where Ferris backtracked on his statements
Marner agent tries to walk back divisive comments following Matthews deal

One quote that struck me from the article above is:

“At the end of the day, Mitch will be with the Maple Leafs… and will be there for a long time,” Ferris told TSN 1050.

Unless it was just the lip service; which I guess it is not based on other reports that Marner wants to be Leaf; am not too worried about it

 

[biotk]

Maybe you know a bit more about Marner than you do about Orr.

When Orr made the Oshawa Generals at age 14 his mother wouldn't let him leave home. He stayed in Parry Sound to attend school during the week and was allowed to play games with the Generals on weekends. He didn't have to attend practices.

However, the comparison is very faint: Marner is no Orr.

I didn't really care about the exact details with Orr. Big deal if it wasn't until he was 15 that he billeted with a family. The point is that back in the day there was generally very little involvement from the parents when players took off to pursue professional hockey at a young age. A neighbor of mine when I was growing up had a kid who left to play hockey at 16. I never met him, but I knew them quite well. He played in the NHL in the 70s and early 80s. I asked them how many NHL games they had gone to watch their son play. None. Each season there would be a couple of his games televised where they (and I) lived, and sometimes there would be highlights from his games played during other locally televised games, but for the most part they just checked out the newspaper the day after each game. They had a bunch of other children to look after at the time he left home at 16 and the coach had phoned them and said he would be taken care of so they really didn't think about it much. When he was young they drove him to games and practices (not a lot of the latter), and usually he just hiked to the outdoor rink and played shinny. He never went to a hockey school or anything like that.

Today it is completely different. Parents are spending a ton of money from the time the kid is young to get onto the best teams in the best league and outside of that ensuring that they are going to the best trainers in the summer. They have agents at a young age. The kids' lives have gone from being pretty independent to very regimented. You come to trust and depend on your agent and parents pretty strongly.

 

[biotk]

Ferris is a known nutcase. Nylander's agent (same as Gaudreau) was reported to be asking for the sky; burke was on record saying that during gaudreau's negotiations the agent's ask was absolutely ridiculous.

Agent's cut is tied directly to the contract they get the players; so agents will always look to get a bigger contract as it maximizes their earning potential and also serves as advertisement to potential future players

If anything, Marner could technically fire Ferris; am not sure if Marner is bound by some kind of contract that he has to negotiate using Ferris and that cannot be broken or something.

The difference is that Marner and Ferris go way back. The ties are very close. A lot of loyalty.

 

[Ciao]

I didn't really care about the exact details with Orr. Big deal if it wasn't until he was 15 that he billeted with a family. The point is that back in the day there was generally very little involvement from the parents when players took off to pursue professional hockey at a young age. A neighbor of mine when I was growing up had a kid who left to play hockey at 16. I never met him, but I knew them quite well. He played in the NHL in the 70s and early 80s. I asked them how many NHL games they had gone to watch their son play. None. Each season there would be a couple of his games televised where they (and I) lived, and sometimes there would be highlights from his games played during other locally televised games, but for the most part they just checked out the newspaper the day after each game. They had a bunch of other children to look after at the time he left home at 16 and the coach had phoned them and said he would be taken care of so they really didn't think about it much. When he was young they drove him to games and practices (not a lot of the latter), and usually he just hiked to the outdoor rink and played shinny. He never went to a hockey school or anything like that.

Today it is completely different. Parents are spending a ton of money from the time the kid is young to get onto the best teams in the best league and outside of that ensuring that they are going to the best trainers in the summer. They have agents at a young age. The kids' lives have gone from being pretty independent to very regimented. You come to trust and depend on your agent and parents pretty strongly.

Then there was Brian Spencer's dad.

You might say he took it all a bit too seriously even back then.

 

[Ciao]

I didn't really care about the exact details with Orr. Big deal if it wasn't until he was 15 that he billeted with a family. The point is that back in the day there was generally very little involvement from the parents when players took off to pursue professional hockey at a young age. A neighbor of mine when I was growing up had a kid who left to play hockey at 16. I never met him, but I knew them quite well. He played in the NHL in the 70s and early 80s. I asked them how many NHL games they had gone to watch their son play. None. Each season there would be a couple of his games televised where they (and I) lived, and sometimes there would be highlights from his games played during other locally televised games, but for the most part they just checked out the newspaper the day after each game. They had a bunch of other children to look after at the time he left home at 16 and the coach had phoned them and said he would be taken care of so they really didn't think about it much. When he was young they drove him to games and practices (not a lot of the latter), and usually he just hiked to the outdoor rink and played shinny. He never went to a hockey school or anything like that.

Today it is completely different. Parents are spending a ton of money from the time the kid is young to get onto the best teams in the best league and outside of that ensuring that they are going to the best trainers in the summer. They have agents at a young age. The kids' lives have gone from being pretty independent to very regimented. You come to trust and depend on your agent and parents pretty strongly.

And I do agree.

 

[biotk]

Then there was Brian Spencer's dad.

You might say he took it all a bit too seriously even back then.

There will always be a couple. But hockey parents on the whole have changed.

 

[ElbowLander]

How much is a C worth who hasn't scored more than 22 goals in the past 6 years and topped 60 points (64) once in that time? Does 8.7x8 on a contract that takes him to the age of 36 sound like a below market deal?

How about a LW who has hit 30 goals and 60 points (61) once? Does 6.8x8 on a contract that takes him to the age of 37 sound like a below market deal?

That is what Bergeron and Marchand's signing cap hits would be today. They are considered great deals because they have played far beyond expectations. They were both risky deals at the time.

How many championships does marner have. Bergeron is widely considered to be the best defensive centre in the league. Marchand among the league leaders in pts and one of the top left wingers. Where's Mitch? Even with his best possible year next to JT he finished well back of the leaders. It's nice to say you want the most money but unfortunately you have to prove it.

 

[biotk]

How many championships does marner have. Bergeron is widely considered to be the best defensive centre in the league. Marchand among the league leaders in pts and one of the top left wingers. Where's Mitch? Even with his best possible year next to JT he finished well back of the leaders. It's nice to say you want the most money but unfortunately you have to prove it.

I agree with you about Marner. However, Bergeron and Marchand have done most of their proving after they signed their most recent contracts (that includes 3 of Bergon's 4 Selkes). That is extraordinarily unusual and the Bruins look like geniuses because of it. Most players are not jumping to much higher levels of play in their early 30s. Bergeron and Marchand have.

 

[Rude Dog]

Ferris is a known nutcase. Nylander's agent (same as Gaudreau) was reported to be asking for the sky; burke was on record saying that during gaudreau's negotiations the agent's ask was absolutely ridiculous.

Agent's cut is tied directly to the contract they get the players; so agents will always look to get a bigger contract as it maximizes their earning potential and also serves as advertisement to potential future players

If anything, Marner could technically fire Ferris; am not sure if Marner is bound by some kind of contract that he has to negotiate using Ferris and that cannot be broken or something.

Regardless of anything; last season when it was reported that Marner camp was willing to sign for 72 million for 8 years; Dubas could have negotiated the contracts for both Marner and Nylander at 8AAV for 8 years

8AAV Nylander and Marner 8 years
Matthews (could have been 8 too but lets say it is what is now) 11.6 for 5 years

TOTAL for 5 years: 27.6 AAV for 5 years for all three of them with Nylander and Marner locked in for 2 and 3 more years respectively

the situation now:

Nylander: 7 AAV for 6 years
Matthews: 11.6 AAV for 5 years
Marner (assume) 10 AAV for 5 years

TOTAL 5 years: 28.6 AAV and all of them UFAs at the same time

Dubas' foresight was ridiculous; and now the team and us as fans are paying for his incompetence

You keep saying it was reported Marner would have signed for 8 times 9. Where did you hear this? I keep hearing their camp had zero interest in negotiating until this summer.

 

[Legion34]

You keep saying it was reported Marner would have signed for 8 times 9. Where did you hear this? I keep hearing their camp had zero interest in negotiating until this summer.

They don’t have one. People just want to be mad

 

[Mr Hockey]

You keep saying it was reported Marner would have signed for 8 times 9. Where did you hear this? I keep hearing their camp had zero interest in negotiating until this summer.

I believe it was media speculation from last season, the Dubas/Marner camp talked during last summer a bit, supposedly

 

[Legion34]

I believe it was media speculation from last season, the Dubas/Marner camp talked during last summer a bit, supposedly

8 months after the fact. By Kypreos

 

[francis246]

I think this falls heavily on Dubas. He really shit the bed. I think he should have locked Nylander and Marner last season when he had the chance. I think he went in too over confident that he could convince them to take less, now we are paying for it.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think this falls heavily on Dubas. He really **** the bed. I think he should have locked Nylander and Marner last season when he had the chance. I think he went in too over confident that he could convince them to take less, now we are paying for it.

Why does it fall on the side making reasonable offers and not Marner's camp for making ridiculous demands?