Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[Lauro]

I think this falls heavily on Dubas. He really **** the bed. I think he should have locked Nylander and Marner last season when he had the chance. I think he went in too over confident that he could convince them to take less, now we are paying for it.

He didn't have the chance though.

 

[Nooodles]

Ferris is one tough, crazy motherf***er thats for sure.

So I think from now on Dubas has to play his game. If that 7 x 11M really has been turned down, I would say hey Ferris, now our offer is 7 x 10M. And tomorrow it is only 7 X 9.5. You can wait all you want, you might as well sit the whole year.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If the Friedman reports are true, that short-term contract is the most insane demand I've heard of since I first started to seriously follow the contract market some 5-6 years ago.

And if any of the recent reports are true, I sincerely doubt that Marner actually was going to take that deal last season that has been rumored. That was at least rather reasonable, in a 'overpay me, but have faith that I can live up to it' way. I don't see a player go from that to something like this over one season.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Marner wants insane money for his **** production. 12th in assists since being drafted and 22nd in points.

Marner was A PURE NOTHING until Tavares arrived.

This clearly won't be worth my time.

 

[613Leafer]

Not much teeth to the offersheet boogeyman.

Chris Johnson said Marner has definitely talked to teams about a 3 year offersheet, likely looking for that high qualifying offer number in the final year, but an AVG below ~10.5M (and thus two 1sts + 2nd + 3rd compensation) to try to entice the Leafs to match.

However, San Jose, Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, NJD, Pittsburgh, Washington, Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota, and Philly have all traded one of their first three picks next draft and are inelligible for an offersheet of that calibre.

Beyond that, only two teams in the league have more than 9M in capspace... Ottawa and Winnipeg. Winnipeg needs to sign Laine/Connor, so they're out. That leaves Ottawa, where: 1) Melnyk is cheap and won't be paying a ~9-10M offersheet with a big qualifying offer # in year three; and 2) Ottawa sucks and is one of the few teams where two 1sts + 2nd + 3rd could actually be good compensation.

Marner's only leverage is sitting out the season, which is a nuclear option that hurts him a ton. If no team is giving him the big payday today, they're not giving it to him after he sits out a year. Plus he'd miss out on a year of his prime earnings.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I think this falls heavily on Dubas. He really **** the bed. I think he should have locked Nylander and Marner last season when he had the chance. I think he went in too over confident that he could convince them to take less, now we are paying for it.

It's all on Marner. From all credible sources, the Leafs offers have been more than fair, bordering on overpayments. Sounds like Marner is either 1) delusional 2) Getting awful advice from his agent/father (not really an excuse because he's a grown ass man that can end this madness whenever he wants. Or 3) isn't really interested in playing here as much as lining his pockets as much as possible. With CJ saying that his camp has been soliciting 3 year offersheets from other teams that would be difficult for us to match, I'm inclined to say 1 and 3 are the most accurate. This entire RFA class can go to hell.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nylander clearly said "I've said it all along Kyle wanted to take things slow" then "my agent and he are going at it" apparently negates Nylander saying dubas wanted to take things slow? what?

No, it doesn't negate that he said that Dubas took things slower. However, he clarifies what that means, and you are blatantly ignoring it for your narrative despite it being literally in the sentence you are quoting from the article you posted.

Dubas himself has admitted that he screwed up; but to you it means "great leadership"

Yes, taking responsibility for things you feel you could have done differently (or even things that aren't your fault), while shielding the young talent that you are responsible for from criticism in the most hostile market is "great leadership".

 

[RoadWarrior]

It's all on Marner. From all credible sources, the Leafs offers have been more than fair, bordering on overpayments. Sounds like Marner is either 1) delusional 2) Getting awful advice from his agent/father (not really an excuse because he's a grown ass man that can end this madness whenever he wants. Or 3) isn't really interested in playing here as much as lining his pockets as much as possible. With CJ saying that his camp has been soliciting 3 year offersheets from other teams that would be difficult for us to match, I'm inclined to say 1 and 3 are the most accurate. This entire RFA class can go to hell.

It’s all posturing. The real question is whether the Marner camp appreciates that unlike last year the leafs are much tighter to the cap and can’t wait until December 1st. Realistically they have until mid October to get something done. Otherwise they’ll be forced to trade him or let him sit.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Stop lying to yourself.

Points per 60 (all situations) 2018-2019:
Matthews 3.471
Marner 3.470

Pts/game 2018-2019:
Marner 1.146 (15th in the NHL)

Points per 60 (all situations) 2017-2018:
Matthews 3.363
Marner 3.080

Pts/game 2017-2018:
Marner 0.841 (54th in the NHL)

LET IT GO! stop lying to yourself.

Lying? You just changed my stats to PPG which completely ignores the entire point of Ice Time.
I also was not comparing Marner to Matthews...... at all.

Your own stats show Marner produces close to Matthews, that wasn't my argument. I was pointing out that Marner would have been PPG if he played 19+min instead of 16min. That was prior to JT, which was the whole point.

 

[KingJoffrey]

It's all on Marner. From all credible sources, the Leafs offers have been more than fair, bordering on overpayments. Sounds like Marner is either 1) delusional 2) Getting awful advice from his agent/father (not really an excuse because he's a grown ass man that can end this madness whenever he wants. Or 3) isn't really interested in playing here as much as lining his pockets as much as possible. With CJ saying that his camp has been soliciting 3 year offersheets from other teams that would be difficult for us to match, I'm inclined to say 1 and 3 are the most accurate. This entire RFA class can go to hell.

No it isn't. Dubas cave to Nylander. And Marner and his camp know that if they wait till the end they will get the deal they want.

 

[janesy12]

Why does it fall on the side making reasonable offers and not Marner's camp for making ridiculous demands?

Yeah I'm not sure how this is Dubas or the Leafs fault. Multiple reports have come out from multiple reporters claiming the Leafs have made multiple very generous offers (we'd call them overpayments) to which Marner's camp has turned down.
Now we hear speculation that the Leafs plan to name Matthews Captain but are afraid to do it now in case they offend Marner.
Seriously?
If this is true he has some serious jealousy issues.

 

[SprDaVE]

Reading Marner rejected a 7 year 11M deal is incredibly disappointing and absurd. It blows my mind if at all true.

Reading that he's trying to squeeze a 3 year offer sheet out of other teams by leveraging the Leafs offer seems pretty awful.

These recent hits from Johnston and Friedman hit hard.

 

[NoTouchIcing]

Not much teeth to the offersheet boogeyman.

Chris Johnson said Marner has definitely talked to teams about a 3 year offersheet, likely looking for that high qualifying offer number in the final year, but an AVG below ~10.5M (and thus two 1sts + 2nd + 3rd compensation) to try to entice the Leafs to match.

However, San Jose, Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, NJD, Pittsburgh, Washington, Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota, and Philly have all traded one of their first three picks next draft and are inelligible for an offersheet of that calibre.

Beyond that, only two teams in the league have more than 9M in capspace... Ottawa and Winnipeg. Winnipeg needs to sign Laine/Connor, so they're out. That leaves Ottawa, where: 1) Melnyk is cheap and won't be paying a ~9-10M offersheet with a big qualifying offer # in year three; and 2) Ottawa sucks and is one of the few teams where two 1sts + 2nd + 3rd could actually be good compensation.

Marner's only leverage is sitting out the season, which is a nuclear option that hurts him a ton. If no team is giving him the big payday today, they're not giving it to him after he sits out a year. Plus he'd miss out on a year of his prime earnings.

They don't have to have next year's first.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They don't have to have next year's first.

I believe for offer sheets below the four 1sts compensation, they do.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas cave to Nylander.

Dubas held firm and Nylander called in the last minutes before the deadline to take the deal.

 

[Peasy]

Friedman never said Marner rejected 11x7. He said he thinks the leafs are willing to offer that.

So much misinformation nowadays that spreads like wildfire. No one ever bothers to check the original source, they just take what someone regurgitates as face value.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No it isn't. Dubas cave to Nylander. And Marner and his camp know that if they wait till the end they will get the deal they want.

Dubas didn’t cave to Nylander. Willy called him at the last minute to accept the leafs final offer.

He did cave to Matthews IMO with the 5 year term on his contract which is creating problems with Marner.

 

[18leafsfan18]

No, it doesn't negate that he said that Dubas took things slower. However, he clarifies what that means, and you are blatantly ignoring it for your narrative despite it being literally in the sentence you are quoting from the article you posted.


Yes, taking responsibility for things you feel you could have done differently (or even things that aren't your fault), while shielding the young talent that you are responsible for from criticism in the most hostile market is "great leadership".

Great leaders blame themselves for team loses, not the team. Well said.

 

[crump]

man this has ferris written all over it.

Look at Ferris clients

Contracts by Agent | Puckpedia

biggest contract there is Taylor Hall at 6AAV (42 million dollars total)

Marner is his big ticket item and he is trying his best to get the most out of the Leafs.

This was the article on yahoo where Ferris backtracked on his statements
Marner agent tries to walk back divisive comments following Matthews deal

One quote that struck me from the article above is:

“At the end of the day, Mitch will be with the Maple Leafs… and will be there for a long time,” Ferris told TSN 1050.

Unless it was just the lip service; which I guess it is not based on other reports that Marner wants to be Leaf; am not too worried about it

From what I recall reading, Ferris is usually full of hot air, saying clients will be going to Europe to train for example is just another tactic. He always settle before the season if I am not mistaken. But you are right, Marner is his big ticket, who knows, maybe he will break his pattern and try to hold out into the season.

I think the Leafs would be wise to let it be known they will let him sit the full year if that's the case. They have enough firepower up front to make do this season, and if it gives a guy like Bracco an opportunity, who has similar skill set, then it can serve them to some degree. Dubas has to show that the season start date is a line in the sand. Unfortunately this is where they find themselves. Marner is probably my favourite current Leaf, so I don't say it lightly that the Leafs might have to trade him to recoup some assets if these asking prices are accurate.

 

[18leafsfan18]

No it isn't. Dubas cave to Nylander. And Marner and his camp know that if they wait till the end they will get the deal they want.

Nylander completely didn't get the deal they wanted. Was reported he was looking for 8-8.5 before the season started.

 

[613Leafer]

They don't have to have next year's first.

All the teams I listed traded a 2nd or 3rd next year.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Friedman never said Marner rejected 11x7. He said he thinks the leafs are willing to offer that.

I heard it was 10 x 8 years. Either way it’s obvious Marner wants only a short term deal. I’m more concerned about the demand for 9.5 AAV on a 3 year bridge with the last year being something nuts like $15 mil making it nearly impossible for the leafs to qualify him sending him directly to UFA status at age 24.

The real question at this point is could they trade him? Or has he priced himself out of the league altogether?

The only teams that could handle his demands are bottom feeders near the cap floor and generally they have cheap owners.

 

[kb]

Ferris is one tough, crazy mother****er thats for sure.

So I think from now on Dubas has to play his game. If that 7 x 11M really has been turned down, I would say hey Ferris, now our offer is 7 x 10M. And tomorrow it is only 7 X 9.5. You can wait all you want, you might as well sit the whole year.

Normally Ferris folds like a cheap suit when push comes to shove. Hoping history repeats....

 

[The Masters]

A close friend of mine played with Mitch back in junior, said his dad is a nut case. Im sure thats already been mentioned.

If Marner is being greedy, Dubas will have to make a tough call and possibly trade him.

Any stud defencemen available?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is he really better than Rantanen or Point?

Yes.

ES P/GP over their ELCs:

Marner - 0.63
Point - 0.59
Rantanen - 0.55

Marner has also produced at the best rate on the PP of the 3, and has had the worst linemates of the 3. Don't let a team stat like PP opportunities skew your perception of the players.