Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[Anthrax442]

Trade him +Ceci for Parayko

 

[TheDoldrums]

Does everything change if they haven't offered what you feel is apparent?

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

 

[Marshy]

Dubas should show Mitch and Paul that he is a man of good will.

Give him the Rantanen deal + 50K a year just to say hey...we value you more than they value their guy.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm sorry that you find this process tiring. Perhaps have a nap? Relax man, what will be, will be. He'll sign before October, and he'll be in the lineup. He wants to be a Leaf, they want him here. He's turned down offersheets, and is still negotiating. It will happen, and don't be so emotionally vested in this, and it wont' make you sleepy.

What I am saying is, it's getting old talking about the same things over and over. Not that it's actually physically tiring. You have to understand the viewpoint of the fans. Talking about cap hits, contracts, is not hockey. It's too much of a distraction.

 

[Suntouchable13]

No real hope?

Look at when the agents other players signed..

I don't have a lot of faith right now.

 

[Sypher04]

Virtually 100% guaranteed Dubie and Ferris did NOT have a deal. Dubie is GM. If he struck a handshake deal then MLSE would be stuck with it. And I doubt he said look we have a deal between us but I need to get Shanny to agree before I finalize it. Those kind of things just do not happen with smart guys like Dubie. He puts himself in a really bad spot going forward in that negotiation and as GM.
We can all agree to disagree on what was fair at time for Willy. I like Willy as you know but I don't like he is making more than Pasta. He is not even close as good period. Willy got 500K too much. Some would argue 1M too much with Ehlers. I figure somewhere in between was right. But very hard to argue Dubie did not overpay on that one.

Actually, it's hard to make a compelling argument that he did overpay.
David Pastrnak had 1 ELC year at the level of his final year. His previous 2 years were significantly lower in all ways. Be it goalscoring, total points, games played. Everything. His numbers ballooned considerably when he was moved up to the top line with Bergeron and Marchand and that's not to take anything away from him, but we cannot sit and act like his performance going forward was a just a foregone conclusion - he had question marks like anyone. Nylander's first 2 seasons in the NHL he had 20g/60+ points in each. Pastrnak obviously gets marks for being quicker to the NHL (although nylander not really had more to do with the state of the Leafs than him), scoring more goals and more points in the final ELC year but it's not some wide performance gap in their first 3 seasons.

In fact Nylander's point production (135 in 185) on his ELC actually marginally outpaces Pastrnak (123 in 172).

Also, for the record, Pastrnak got more than Nylander did.
Going off pure AAV isn't really a good way to look at things. Nylander's cap percentage at signing while not all that far under Pastrnak's deal is less than Pastrnak's.

 

[Fogelhund]

Of course it points at Marner. The Leafs have apparently offered 3 x $8.75. That's already a significant overpayment for that term, the fact that it wasn't agreed to means they're being unreasonable (at least on a 3 year term).

The math that I see, suggests $7.5 for three years. If you look at the landscape this year, most of the signings, for guys over $6 mil, have been around $700k higher than expected.... that takes us to $8.2

I guess we could argue about whether $550k is a significant overpayment or not... maybe we'd agree, maybe we wouldn't. But the overpay appears to be $550k.

$8.2 appears to be where the market would be right now, based on math, and other signings. The balance of the RFA signings, could modify the current overpay over expected, but we can't factor that in as of yet. $8.75 over three years is also speculation... once a real contract happens, we can debate the merits of it once it happens. Almost everyone has been an overpay so far this year, and that trend is likely to continue.

 

[kb]

Dubas should show Mitch and Paul that he is a man of good will.

Give him the Rantanen deal + 50K a year just to say hey...we value you more than they value their guy.

$5 per year more? We value you, but don't piss us off ever again.

 

[ACC1224]

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

Wait for the facts before making up my mind.

 

[Fogelhund]

What I am saying is, it's getting old talking about the same things over and over. Not that it's actually physically tiring. You have to understand the viewpoint of the fans. Talking about cap hits, contracts, is not hockey. It's too much of a distraction.

Sadly, it's become a major part of the offseason now. The salary cap, the math behind it, the negotiations... Hockey is a business, with constraints. There hasn't been much in the way of real news in months. If you are tired of it, turn off the forums for a week, go for a hike anything... I know I did for parts of this summer. I'd just like this to be over as well, it's understandable.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It's September 5th. Do you know where your offersheet is?

There's a picture of it on milk cartons.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Sadly, it's become a major part of the offseason now. The salary cap, the math behind it, the negotiations... Hockey is a business, with constraints. There hasn't been much in the way of real news in months. If you are tired of it, turn off the forums for a week, go for a hike anything... I know I did for parts of this summer. I'd just like this to be over as well, it's understandable.

I don't understand why posters come in here and complain that we are talking about Marner's contract in a thread named "Marner Contract Discussion"

 

[Suntouchable13]

Sadly, it's become a major part of the offseason now. The salary cap, the math behind it, the negotiations... Hockey is a business, with constraints. There hasn't been much in the way of real news in months. If you are tired of it, turn off the forums for a week, go for a hike anything... I know I did for parts of this summer. I'd just like this to be over as well, it's understandable.

I did ignore these Marner threads for a while in July-August, but it's hard to just keep ignoring it forever. You know?

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'm not mad at Marner, just disappointed.

I was hoping that, after the Nylander saga last year, Marner would tell his agent that he does not want to go through that with his contract negotiations.

Low and behold, here we are. Still a lot of time left to get it done but if this drags into the season I'll be pretty disheartened with him.

 

[ZEBROA]

They could miss with him.

yeah they could miss with or without, but they should not.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Wait for the facts before making up my mind.

What facts are those? Reporters I trust have reported the offer I posted. I literally said I would change my mind if the facts changed.

 

[ZEBROA]

you misread my point.
it's like saying we don't need
Mathews
Rielly
Tavares

we need everyone if we want to win the cup.

my bad yeah to win the cup we are better of with all of them. But we should be able to get to the playoff s without Marner.

 

[4thline]

Mirtle on the leaf report today was saying that the Marner camp is dead set on getting the Matthews deal (same term+dollar amount) and that they believe as a tandem (Marner+Matthews) are the faces of the leafs franchise.

If this really is the case Dubas absolutely cannot fold, and has a tall task ahead of him to convey the tough reality without completely destroying the relationship.

But it's simple. Comparable results. Let Matthews ride shotgun with a franchise C his results get better. Make Marner handle the C responsibilities with 2nd line wingers his results get worse. Not equals.

 

[ACC1224]

What facts are those? Reporters I trust have reported the offer I posted. I literally said I would change my mind if the facts changed.

I wonder where these 'facts' come from if Dubas isn't passing them along?

 

[TheDoldrums]

I wonder where these 'facts' come from if Dubas isn't passing them along?

Please take your crusade against fake news to someone else, I could not care less about changing your mind or engaging further.

 

[ACC1224]

Please take your crusade against fake news to someone else, I could not care less about changing your mind or engaging further.

ok

 

[ShaneFalco]

What facts are those? Reporters I trust have reported the offer I posted. I literally said I would change my mind if the facts changed.

His "facts" are talking to people at games

 

[Marshy]

I'm not privy to what Leafs players get above and beyond what the average NHL teams (not even mentioning the Melnyk run Sens) provide in terms of perks and recognition. I do know that Marner is far far better off on the Leafs from a financial sense than he would be on most other teams. Him putting the gears to the team for every penny leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That just reeks of greed and entitlement.

I wonder how much of it is trying to fight the good fight for the PA and the other RFAs who want to rise with him as the high water mark.

If a player doesn't want to be here fine....hold the team to the flames and punch your ticket out of town that's your right. But he does want to be here...so then prove it. So sick of him playing both sides of the coin . No offersheet was attractive enough then you should know your value.

The only way I'm disappointed in the outcome here is if Dubas signs Marner first. He needs to hold firm and not set the market because that's the only way he loses this standoff IMO.

 

[Nithoniniel]

My guess is still that Marner's camp is being deliberately impossible just so Marner can step in before the season and take a lesser deal to get it done. And I think that deal is what they've had in mind for a while now. It would look good on Marner even if he's actually getting more than he perhaps deserve.

 

[jrgtml67]

Well if Jake was really waiting on the leafs...and now is a Hurricane maybe something is near