Tribute Marner Appreciation Thread

[Gabriel426]

MM is a great player but like AM, they both had not done anything in the playoffs. That could change this year and I sure hope they do.

Fairly or not, Leafs could not get out of the first round are on guys like MM, AM, JT, Reilly and Willie, bc they are the core/leaders of the team. One of them got a C on their jersey and three of them got an A on theirs. The fact that they collectively couldn’t close out a series in 4 straight years is concerning.

You can argue they played decent or even great but except for Willie and Reilly, none of them had reach the level that they did in the regular season prior. For example, AM was the Rocket and Hart winner last season but in the first round, he didn’t played like a Rocket and Hart winner same can be said with MM being 1st team All Stars. Not saying they were crap but they were not at their regular season level.

You can argue TB depth was better or Price was the reason against the Habs….and the list can be endless. The truth is that our top guys just didn’t produce like they did in the regular season and no fancy or advanced stats can prove that otherwise.

The fact that opposing depth outplaying our depth will always happen bc other teams will always have more cap to spend on depth players than us due to not having 3 guys that is around 11mil/per. Which makes it crucial for our top guys to maintain their regular season productions as they are usually the top 3 caphit players in any given series the Leafs played. Essentially, top players playing against the Leafs in the playoffs can afford to have more off nights against the Leafs than our top guys due to the difference in Caphits.

Not going into why MM or AM got their contracts or Dubas could have done better. As the truth of the matter is that I could careless if they are making the max or on a 850k deal since all they need to do is lead the Leafs to win in the playoffs and a Cup or two.

Before we declare MM or AM or JT to be part of Legends row, let’s see how they finish their careers first. You know like see if they can lead the Leafs to playoffs victories and Cups.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Even Gilmour couldn't help when other lines were on the ice.
Last year, Marner was a +3 averaging more than a ppg in the playoffs yet the 3rd and 4th lines of Tampa feasted.
Not every playoff loss is on this kid.

He was really good in the playoffs, agree 100%. The three years previous he underperformed but yeah, not last season. Ever since he last season at some point out of nowhere, unveiled a high quality shot he's been dominant. Anything's always possible so not our of the question that he falls off again in the playoffs but I think it's highly unlikely. Most probable is that he's just matured (maybe even grown up ),and he's now in his absolute prime as a hockey player and this is the Marner we're going to see for the next few years.

 

[Notsince67]

MM is a great player but like AM, they both had not done anything in the playoffs. That could change this year and I sure hope they do.

Fairly or not, Leafs could not get out of the first round are on guys like MM, AM, JT, Reilly and Willie, bc they are the core/leaders of the team. One of them got a C on their jersey and three of them got an A on theirs. The fact that they collectively couldn’t close out a series in 4 straight years is concerning.

You can argue they played decent or even great but except for Willie and Reilly, none of them had reach the level that they did in the regular season prior. For example, AM was the Rocket and Hart winner last season but in the first round, he didn’t played like a Rocket and Hart winner same can be said with MM being 1st team All Stars. Not saying they were crap but they were not at their regular season level.

You can argue TB depth was better or Price was the reason against the Habs….and the list can be endless. The truth is that our top guys just didn’t produce like they did in the regular season and no fancy or advanced stats can prove that otherwise.

The fact that opposing depth outplaying our depth will always happen bc other teams will always have more cap to spend on depth players than us due to not having 3 guys that is around 11mil/per. Which makes it crucial for our top guys to maintain their regular season productions as they are usually the top 3 caphit players in any given series the Leafs played. Essentially, top players playing against the Leafs in the playoffs can afford to have more off nights against the Leafs than our top guys due to the difference in Caphits.

Not going into why MM or AM got their contracts or Dubas could have done better. As the truth of the matter is that I could careless if they are making the max or on a 850k deal since all they need to do is lead the Leafs to win in the playoffs and a Cup or two.

Before we declare MM or AM or JT to be part of Legends row, let’s see how they finish their careers first. You know like see if they can lead the Leafs to playoffs victories and Cups.

Revisionist history. Matthews & Marner's line dominated their matchups against some of the best players in the league in the PO last year. This storyline is a bit lazy IMO.
Those two are not responsible for the other lines. Look closely who exactly scored on Tampa and more importantly...who didn't.

 

[Antropovsky]

Even Gilmour couldn't help when other lines were on the ice.
Last year, Marner was a +3 averaging more than a ppg in the playoffs yet the 3rd and 4th lines of Tampa feasted.
Not every playoff loss is on this kid.

Marner is paid 13.5 % of the cap... We can't afford anyond better on the 3rd. Tampa top players are paid less, and thus they can afford more for goalie and lower lines scoring. Thats how the cap works....

Your ignoring Marners lack of clutch play.... He through the puck over the glass leading to Montreal's gwg ...vs Tampa his hail mary pass was picked off and led to the gwg against. Marner cant be blamed for the losses, but these were bad judgement plays that directly led to us losing critical games in close series'. Nobody else on the team made these plays, they cant be blamed.

For 13.5 % he needs to play like prime Crosby. The absolute best of the best.
2 goals in three series at 11 million isn't good enough. Kampf has as many in one series.

 

[Gabriel426]

Revisionist history. Matthews & Marner's line dominated their matchups against some of the best players in the league in the PO last year. This storyline is a bit lazy IMO.
Those two are not responsible for the other lines. Look closely who exactly scored on Tampa and more importantly...who didn't.

I never said they didn’t score. Also, they should dominate their matchups bc they are usually the top three highest paid players in the playoffs.
Also, I mentioned they didn’t play to their regular season standard.
Like I said, they are the leadership and core of the team, you can’t escape responsibility when the team underperformed.
The reason why they are the leaders is bc the team needs them to lead them to victory. What’s the point of having talented players like AM and MM if at the end of the day, the team is relying on the Engvalls or Simmonds to deliver them wins.

The Leafs need them to do more bc 1. They have not advance collectively 2. Our depth sucks.
Just look at the recent play of the Leafs, it is mainly driven by MM recent point streak, and JT, Willie and AM scoring with Murray’s goaltending. Don’t want to say it has nothing to do with depth players but I don’t think having Holmberg in the lineup is a main reason why the Leafs been playing better than they did in October.
Like it or not, our Leafs are built on the success of our top 4 forwards bc if they are not producing, our depth can’t carry the load. In a way, our top 4 forwards, not only need to be better than the opposing top 4 forwards, they need to put produce all the top opposing forwards who combined for 40mil caphit. If the opposing team top 4 forwards made a combine of 32mil, and their next 2 makes 8mil, our top 4 guys need to outproduce their top 6 guys. That’s the reality of the Leafs due to the cap.

 

[Notsince67]

I never said they didn’t score. Also, they should dominate their matchups bc they are usually the top three highest paid players in the playoffs.
Also, I mentioned they didn’t play to their regular season standard.
Like I said, they are the leadership and core of the team, you can’t escape responsibility when the team underperformed.
The reason why they are the leaders is bc the team needs them to lead them to victory. What’s the point of having talented players like AM and MM if at the end of the day, the team is relying on the Engvalls or Simmonds to deliver them wins.

The Leafs need them to do more bc 1. They have not advance collectively 2. Our depth sucks.
Just look at the recent play of the Leafs, it is mainly driven by MM recent point streak, and JT, Willie and AM scoring with Murray’s goaltending. Don’t want to say it has nothing to do with depth players but I don’t think having Holmberg in the lineup is a main reason why the Leafs been playing better than they did in October.
Like it or not, our Leafs are built on the success of our top 4 forwards bc if they are not producing, our depth can’t carry the load. In a way, our top 4 forwards, not only need to be better than the opposing top 4 forwards, they need to put produce all the top opposing forwards who combined for 40mil caphit. If the opposing team top 4 forwards made a combine of 32mil, and their next 2 makes 8mil, our top 4 guys need to outproduce their top 6 guys. That’s the reality of the Leafs due to the cap.

Paid? I thought you said they didnt perform. You understand a matchup of Kucherov, Stamkos & Palat is a pretty big deal, right?

Again...the take is lazy. They did everything to win. Look to other gaps on the team to find your problem and certainly not in a Marner appreciation thread.

 

[Gabriel426]

Paid? I thought you said they didnt perform. You understand a matchup of Kucherov, Stamkos & Palat is a pretty big deal, right?

Again...the take is lazy. They did everything to win. Look to other gaps on the team to find your problem and certainly not in a Marner appreciation thread.

Just have to agree to disagree with you on this one, bro. No point kept going on in circles.

 

[MAB1]

Marner is paid 13.5 % of the cap... We can't afford anyond better on the 3rd. Tampa top players are paid less, and thus they can afford more for goalie and lower lines scoring. Thats how the cap works....

Your ignoring Marners lack of clutch play.... He through the puck over the glass leading to Montreal's gwg ...vs Tampa his hail mary pass was picked off and led to the gwg against. Marner cant be blamed for the losses, but these were bad judgement plays that directly led to us losing critical games in close series'. Nobody else on the team made these plays, they cant be blamed.

For 13.5 % he needs to play like prime Crosby. The absolute best of the best.
2 goals in three series at 11 million isn't good enough. Kampf has as many in one series.

Why do you bring up Tampa's players being paid less but leave out their tax advantage? Kinda misleading if you ask me.

Only thing worse than a Leaf homer is a "Leaf" fan that seeks approval of the main boards lmao.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Why do you bring up Tampa's players being paid less but leave out their tax advantage? Kinda misleading if you ask me.

Only thing worse than a Leaf homer is a "Leaf" fan that seeks approval of the main boards lmao.

Probably because their tax issue was much discussed on here last season and in general given they were going for a 3 peat. You're not adding much either.

 

[MAB1]

Probably because their tax issue was much discussed on here last season and in general given they were going for a 3 peat. You're not adding much either.

Forgot when I asked you anything

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Forgot when I asked you anything

So ask me something or beat it.

 

[Antropovsky]

Why do you bring up Tampa's players being paid less but leave out their tax advantage? Kinda misleading if you ask me.

Only thing worse than a Leaf homer is a "Leaf" fan that seeks approval of the main boards lmao.

And your leaving out the fact Marner is making over 2 million in endorsements...one of the top paid players in that regard. He doesn't get that in Florida. Not to mention he gets most of his money up front, which is another advantage.

The main board has also posted discussion about how the tax difference is not as advantageous as people suggest.

Regardless.... Facts are Marner is at 13.5 % and because of his contract along with Tavares and Matthews we can't afford things Tampa can. Marners impact can't be compared to other players based on the lines they play on. It should be based on their impact on the game relative to their contracts. The excuse in Montreal and Columbus was the goalies were hot.... This isn't an excuse... This means the goalies made bigger impacts relative to their contracts.

The argument cant be... Oh Marner was fine, he was a plus and a ppg...it was the bottom 6, defense and goalie that was the problem. Some posters are twisting the argument... Nobody hates Marner, in a no cap world hes a fan favorite even without the playoff performances. But in a cap world it matters a lot. At 13% he needs to be producing the gwg in elimination games, not causing them against. A ppg is great... But only if hes driving much of the points and not just being a beneficiary of them. Sure hes a great defensive player... But so is Kampf for a fraction of the cost and he scored as many goals as Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner is paid 13.5 % of the cap...

13.38% is what he signed at, actually.

We can't afford anyond better on the 3rd. Tampa top players are paid less, and thus they can afford more for goalie and lower lines scoring.

Tampa's bottom-six made a similar amount to Toronto's. And money doesn't change whether or not we have a Vasilevsky.

He through the puck over the glass leading to Montreal's gwg

That wasn't a GWG, for the record.

..vs Tampa his hail mary pass was picked off and led to the gwg against.

That wasn't a "hail mary pass". It was a flip out of the zone - something that every team does a ton. It wasn't Marner's fault that Matthews tripped, and it didn't cause a goal; it caused a change of possession.

For 13.5 % he needs to play like prime Crosby. The absolute best of the best. 2 goals in three series at 11 million isn't good enough.

For 13.5% (which he makes less than) he needs to play like prime Crosby (who made more)? Weird comment.
Do you think Crosby has never scored just 2 goals through 3 series before?
Fun fact: Crosby, in his mid-20s, put up 3 goals and 10 assists for 13 points in 22 games across 4 consecutive playoff series.
Should Pittsburgh have overreacted to his contextless production, decided Crosby was trash based entirely on a small, cherry-picked sample, and dumped him?
Well it's a good thing they didn't because Crosby followed it up with two consecutive Cups and Conn Smythes. Sounds like some need to take that as a lesson.

 

[Antropovsky]

13.38% is what he signed at, actually.

Tampa's bottom-six made a similar amount to Toronto's. And money doesn't change whether or not we have a Vasilevsky.

That wasn't a GWG, for the record.

That wasn't a "hail mary pass". It was a flip out of the zone - something that every team does a ton. It wasn't Marner's fault that Matthews tripped, and it didn't cause a goal; it caused a change of possession.

For 13.5% (which he makes less than) he needs to play like prime Crosby (who made more)? Weird comment.
Do you think Crosby has never scored just 2 goals through 3 series before?
Fun fact: Crosby, in his mid-20s, put up 3 goals and 10 assists for 13 points in 22 games across 4 consecutive playoff series.
Should Pittsburgh have overreacted to his contextless production, decided Crosby was trash based entirely on a small, cherry-picked sample, and dumped him?
Well it's a good thing they didn't because Crosby followed it up with two consecutive Cups and Conn Smythes. Sounds like some need to take that as a lesson.

This is the play...that you say wasnt a pass attempt and wasn't a giveaway that led to a goal. The pass was way behind Matthews and an easy steal for Tampa. Notice Marner also get beat coming into the zone by the puck carrier, losing his stick in the process and leading to the goal.

 

[ACC1224]

I think 'APPRECIATION' may be too big a word for some.

 

[Antropovsky]

13.38% is what he signed at, actually.

Tampa's bottom-six made a similar amount to Toronto's. And money doesn't change whether or not we have a Vasilevsky.

That wasn't a GWG, for the record.

That wasn't a "hail mary pass". It was a flip out of the zone - something that every team does a ton. It wasn't Marner's fault that Matthews tripped, and it didn't cause a goal; it caused a change of possession.

For 13.5% (which he makes less than) he needs to play like prime Crosby (who made more)? Weird comment.
Do you think Crosby has never scored just 2 goals through 3 series before?
Fun fact: Crosby, in his mid-20s, put up 3 goals and 10 assists for 13 points in 22 games across 4 consecutive playoff series.
Should Pittsburgh have overreacted to his contextless production, decided Crosby was trash based entirely on a small, cherry-picked sample, and dumped him?
Well it's a good thing they didn't because Crosby followed it up with two consecutive Cups and Conn Smythes. Sounds like some need to take that as a lesson.

Crosby?

Also what was his playoff production before those years and how many cup and finals was he in? Wasn't he also coming of serious injuries the immediate year's prior where there was rumors he may have to retire?

Your right context matters ....

 

[therealkoho]

Not to say unexpected but it was expected that a thread that was meant as a tribute to Mitch Marner would actually turn out not to be a tribute to Mitch and his talent.

As a Leafs fan who has been a Leafs fan longer than some of your fathers have been on the planet, take this with as big a grain of salt as you need. You have the pleasure of seeing a player who may someday be thought of as not only the greatest Leaf of all time, but possibly a top 20 player of all time.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is the play...that you say wasnt a pass attempt and wasn't a giveaway that led to a goal. The pass was way behind Matthews and an easy steal for Tampa.

Yes, that is the play. That isn't a hail mary pass. That's a flip to clear the zone, and it happens all the time. Matthews likely would have received it if he didn't trip backwards.

Notice Marner also get beat coming into the zone by the puck carrier, losing his stick in the process and leading to the goal.

I noticed that Marner pushed him to the outside and slowed him down, and unfortunately his stick whipped out of his hands. I then noticed a whole bunch of other things go wrong to lead to the eventual goal, and yet you're here pinning it all on Marner.

Also what was his playoff production before those years and how many cup and finals was he in?

You're missing the point. Even the "best of the best" see production fluctuate, and even they go through these exact same kind of stretches in the playoffs. It doesn't mean he's not the player he's proven to be. It doesn't mean he's not going to produce in future playoff series. It doesn't even mean he's playing badly in those games. We don't define Marner by his production in some cherry picked playoff sample, just as we don't define Crosby by his production in some cherry-picked playoff sample.

Wasn't he also coming of serious injuries the immediate year's prior where there was rumors he may have to retire?

He had an injury years prior, was fully back before that sample, and had no trouble pacing for 128 and 107 point seasons in the regular season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not to say unexpected but it was expected that a thread that was meant as a tribute to Mitch Marner would actually turn out not to be a tribute to Mitch and his talent.

As a Leafs fan who has been a Leafs fan longer than some of your fathers have been on the planet, take this with as big a grain of salt as you need. You have the pleasure of seeing a player who may someday be thought of as not only the greatest Leaf of all time, but possibly a top 20 player of all time.

This is true. I get it though, hockey is a team game and when the team keeps losing in the playoffs, it's hard to complain about fans not being happy. But yeah Marner is as good as you say so despite playoff disappointments, people should try hard to not think about playoff failures when they're watching because this kid is really something special.

 

[Gabriel426]

This is true. I get it though, hockey is a team game and when the team keeps losing in the playoffs, it's hard to complain about fans not being happy. But yeah Marner is as good as you say so despite playoff disappointments, people should try hard to not think about playoff failures when they're watching because this kid is really something special.

MM is a talented player and I don’t get why people don’t enjoy him playing well. I understand if Leafs traded him away…but as long as he is a Leafs, should we cheer and hope MM and any other Leafs to do well?
I wish Engvall and Kerfoot are scoring, and Sandin skates faster but that doesn’t mean I want them to do bad.
Playoffs and off games are other thing.
He is having a hot streak and the Leafs is winning.

 

[Its not your fault]

MM is a great player but like AM, they both had not done anything in the playoffs. That could change this year and I sure hope they do.

Fairly or not, Leafs could not get out of the first round are on guys like MM, AM, JT, Reilly and Willie, bc they are the core/leaders of the team. One of them got a C on their jersey and three of them got an A on theirs. The fact that they collectively couldn’t close out a series in 4 straight years is concerning.

You can argue they played decent or even great but except for Willie and Reilly, none of them had reach the level that they did in the regular season prior. For example, AM was the Rocket and Hart winner last season but in the first round, he didn’t played like a Rocket and Hart winner same can be said with MM being 1st team All Stars. Not saying they were crap but they were not at their regular season level.

You can argue TB depth was better or Price was the reason against the Habs….and the list can be endless. The truth is that our top guys just didn’t produce like they did in the regular season and no fancy or advanced stats can prove that otherwise.

The fact that opposing depth outplaying our depth will always happen bc other teams will always have more cap to spend on depth players than us due to not having 3 guys that is around 11mil/per. Which makes it crucial for our top guys to maintain their regular season productions as they are usually the top 3 caphit players in any given series the Leafs played. Essentially, top players playing against the Leafs in the playoffs can afford to have more off nights against the Leafs than our top guys due to the difference in Caphits.

Not going into why MM or AM got their contracts or Dubas could have done better. As the truth of the matter is that I could careless if they are making the max or on a 850k deal since all they need to do is lead the Leafs to win in the playoffs and a Cup or two.

Before we declare MM or AM or JT to be part of Legends row, let’s see how they finish their careers first. You know like see if they can lead the Leafs to playoffs victories and Cups.

Can you type that out again.

 

[Its not your fault]

I noticed on Mitch Marners Empty netter cherry picking goal, as well as the couple misses. He took 2 defenseman and a forward out of the offensive zone. On a couple of those plays. Normally we are hemmed in their own zone for 2 minutes.

 

[Smif]

Atta boy, Mtch! One day you will actually be appreciated around here.

 

[DarkKnight]

 

[Darcy Tucker]

He hit the griddy